john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (08/15/90)
"Scott D. Green" <GREEN@wharton.upenn.edu> writes: > Some official (their tech consultant, no doubt) did mention that the > tone generators were readily available elsewhere, but (get this) the > possession of such an instrument could be construed as probable cause! A J Annala <annala%neuro.usc.edu@usc.edu> writes: > devices include ATT Craft Test Set, Progressive Electronics 200B > Inductive Amplifier, Dracon D814 Impact Tool, and a Progressive 77M > Tone Generator. The police claim is that such devices are telephone > access devices which should not be in the hands of the public. We have a problem here. Taken ad absurdam, having a computer with a modem attached could be contrued as a telephone access device. After all, look how much crime is perpetrated these days with such equipment. The other question concerns the definition of "public". Does one have to be an employee on definite assignment by a bona fide telephone utility to legally carry and use telephone test equipment? I, and a number of my friends, do a heavy amount of telecom consulting. We routinely use line analyzers, punchdown tools, and butt sets. None of us "work" for anyone but ourselves. Is it time to register our dangerous "weapons" with the police? > I am curious about whether any other technical people have > been challenged by the police and what answer has satisfied them > to go away without hassle. Some years ago, I needed to perform some audio measurements on a small FM station in Los Gatos. The Los Gatos cops are jokingly referred to by the locals as the "Los Gatos Metropolitan" police. I have personally seen repeated instances where the LG Fuzz act as if they are NY wanabees, having about as much small town finesse as a bulldozer and a wrecking ball. Anyway, shortly after midnight I was carrying equipment (distortion test set, monitor receiver, etc.) from my truck into the studio. Suddenly, an officer pulled up and demanded to know what I was doing and wanted to see "ID". I produced my license and explained that I was making tests on the radio station. This wasn't good enough. While he was eyeing over the equipment, he asked things like, "How often do you do this?" "Who 'authorized' this?" "How much is this equipment worth?" "Where are your receipts for it?" Finally, with the evening moving on apace and a lot of other things to do that evening, I told the officer that I had identified myself and explained my purpose in being at that location. All of his other questions were irrelavent and none of his business, that I had work to do, and invited him to either arrest me or leave the premesis. He considered that for a moment and decided that he would leave, but not without giving me some friendly warnings about doing "suspicious" stuff in his jurisdiction. The next day I called the Los Gatos Town Hall and informally complained about the incident. I got the expected "we're only doing our job" and then was told that the officers would be advised that midnight to six work would sometimes take place at the radio station. From the way things are going these days, my challenge to the officer would now result in my arrest. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
Colin Plumb <colin@array.uucp> (08/16/90)
Or you can consider the time I was wandering around downtown Toronto at 4:00 on a monday morning festooned with needle-nose pliers, a crescent wrench, vice-grips, wire cutters, a pin punch (very useful for breaking locks open, BTW), screwdrivers, and various other evidence that I would win an encounter with anything mechanical. On my back was a knapsack filled with 50m of climbing rope, a harness, webbing, a descender, carabiners ... just what all those urban commandos in movies need. Nobody even looked at me oddly, but it would have really troubled any paranoid authorities. (To forestall all the mail, it was a late-night fantasy gaming session which was "come as you are"; we'd try to tranlate the person that walked in the door into GURPS terms and dump them in a situation. I adopted the Boy Scout's motto and came prepared.) Colin
ergo%.UUCP@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Isaac Rabinovitch) (08/19/90)
In <10986@accuvax.nwu.edu> colin@array.uucp (Colin Plumb) writes: >Or you can consider the time I was wandering around downtown Toronto >at 4:00 on a monday morning festooned with needle-nose pliers.... >webbing, a descender, carabiners ... just what all those urban >commandos in movies need. >.. but it would have really troubled any paranoid authorities. Any Donald Westlake fan would tell you how to avoid suspicion in such circumstances: carry a clipboard. ergo@netcom.uucp Isaac Rabinovitch atina!pyramid!apple!netcom!ergo Silicon Valley, CA uunet!mimsy!ames!claris!netcom!ergo Disclaimer: I am what I am, and that's all what I am!
Robert Savery <Robert.Savery@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org> (08/31/90)
In a message of <14 Aug 90 18:16:22>, John Higdon (1:30102/2) writes:
[ Los Gatos Police story deleted to save space ]
JH> From the way things are going these days, my challenge to the officer
JH> would now result in my arrest.
You could be in real trouble if the officer's brother-in-law happens
to work for GTE !! ;-)
See Ya!!
Bob
[1:285/666.5@fidonet] Trebor's Castle, Lavista Ne.
--- Through FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390
Robert.Savery@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org
[Moderator's Note: Not only GTE. I hear Sprint also has a warrant out
for his capture, dead or alive. :) PAT]john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (09/03/90)
Robert Savery <Robert.Savery@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org> writes: > [ Los Gatos Police story deleted to save space ] > You could be in real trouble if the officer's brother-in-law happens > to work for GTE !! ;-) Chuckle, chuckle. But unfortunately there is more truth to this than most people realize. With the government naivete being what it is, all it takes these days is to get some agency with clout and a security force pissed off at you and you will shortly find Federal agents at your door with a search warrant. I have seen the sworn affidavits for search warrents in association with some current cases of alleged Federal "felonies and misdemeanors" and they are downright laughable. Using language that is reminiscent of that used by "Kingfish" in "Amos 'n Andy", a telco "special agent" will flim-flam reasons why the warrant should be granted. To make it sound more impressive and sinister, buttsets are described as "telephone eavesdropping and monitoring equipment" and PCs are described as "equipment that can receive, transmit, and modify data". A judge takes one look at this and immediatly grants the warrant. While it is unlikely that any of this would stand up in court (a la Neidorf), the "aggrieved" agency will have accomplished its revenge through the search and siezure and indictment alone. By the time this has happened, a person's livelyhood is damaged or destroyed, his financial resources are exhausted (through defense of the charges), and his reputation has been made questionable. Trust me; this is not "hacker paranoia". I have now seen how this works for myself (fortunately from the sidelines) and have what can best be described as some well-founded concerns. > [Moderator's Note: Not only GTE. I hear Sprint also has a warrant out > for his capture, dead or alive. :) PAT] Yeah? Well, I don't remember cutting Pac*Bell any slack, either. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !