stv@uunet.uu.net> (08/30/90)
In regards to the capability of calling 800 numbers from countries
other than the United States, there was a blurb in last month's
Compuserve Magazine (July 90), page 8:
----begin quoted article----
BYPASSING TOLL-FREE TROLLS
Toll-free numbers provide a convenient and cost-effective method for
businesses to stay in touch with customers. The drawback, however, is
they are inaccessible to anyone who happens not to be in the targeted
market area*.
For those individuals, as well as travelers seeking an alternative to
the high international telephone call surcharges imposed by many
hotels, Credit Card Calling Services can help. CCCS provides access
by bypassing local telephone companies, which typically block
toll-free calls as they can collect no revenue on them. For $4.80
plus $1.35 a minute, CCCS connects you with any US telephone number,
bypassing local telephone operators.
The service is currently available in several countries including the
United Kingdom and the United States.
For more information, United Kingdom residents can call CCCS toll-free
at 0800-891-800. Others may obtain an information packet and a local
access number by calling 212/323-8030 or writing: Suite 2411, 67 Wall
Street, New York, NY 10005.
------end of article-----
I put the "*" above next to something that surprised me. I didn't
know that the Locals blocked 800 numbers for that reason -- I thought
you restricted 800 number access to only be available in areas you
wanted to market to, to minimize the number of hours of use and
therefore the cost.
In fact, I thought that more than one person or company could have the
same 800 number, as long as the regions were far apart geographically.
But anyway, there is probably some usefulness in some of the above
information to someone, I hope.
[Moderator's Note: I think CCCS or someone is lying about the blocking
of 800 calls by telcos 'as they can collect no revenue on them'. Of
course they collect revenue on them! 800 calling is nothing more or
less than automatic reverse-charge, or collect calling. And the telco
which originates the call *always* gets paid for the call, through
intercompany billing and settlements with the telco which actually
collects for the call. If you called me collect through the operator,
are you saying your local telco would be working for free? Responding
to your second statement about duplication in numbers based on
distance, this is not correct. 800 numbers, like all telephone
numbers, are not duplicated within an 'area code', which in this case
is 800. Telcos *do* block 800 calls if the receiver of the call -- the
person who is paying for it, remember -- says he won't pay for calls
from some particular area of the country; i.e. a subscriber who only
accepts intra-state calls, or local area calls. PAT]knop@duteca.tudelft.nl (P. Knoppers) (09/05/90)
>Toll-free numbers provide a convenient and cost-effective method for >businesses to stay in touch with customers. The drawback, however, is >they are inaccessible to anyone who happens not to be in the targeted >market area*. [The remainder of the article suggested that this might not be true] Well, it is true from the Netherlands. It is not possible to reach 800 numbers from this country. Apparently they are blocked in the international exchanges of PTT telecom, the Dutch phone monopoly holder. American visitors having an AT&T phone card can probably reach 800 numbers through AT&Ts USA-direct service (I may have this name wrong), which has a toll-free number in the Netherlands. I believe that the toll-free numbers in this country can not be reached from abroad, so the "problem" is symmetric. P. Knoppers, Delft Univ. of Technology, The Netherlands, knop@duteca.tudelft.nl
henry@garp.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) (09/06/90)
From: "P. Knoppers" <knop@duteca.tudelft.nl> >American visitors having an AT&T phone card can probably reach 800 >numbers through AT&Ts USA-direct service (I may have this name wrong), >which has a toll-free number in the Netherlands. Nope ... people who have 800 numbers agree to pay for calls originating from certain areas (and often the entire US and Canada). they never agreed to pay for calls coming in from abroad. # Henry Mensch / <henry@garp.mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA # <hmensch@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <henry@tts.lth.se> / <mensch@munnari.oz.au>
roeber@portia.caltech.edu (Roeber, Frederick) (09/07/90)
In article <11764@accuvax.nwu.edu>, knop@duteca.tudelft.nl (P. Knoppers) writes... >Well, it is true from the Netherlands. It is not possible to reach 800 >numbers from this country. Apparently they are blocked in the >international exchanges of PTT telecom, the Dutch phone monopoly >holder. It's not possible from Switzerland, either. I tried. The attitude of the Swiss PTT (like most other Swiss organizations..) is, "If we can't make money off of it, you can't do it." Frederick Roeber, roeber@caltech.edu
covert@covert.enet.dec.com (John R. Covert 07-Sep-1990 1020) (09/07/90)
Henry Mensch <henry@garp.mit.edu> replies to "P. Knoppers" <knop@duteca.tudelft.nl> saying: >>American visitors having an AT&T phone card can probably reach 800 >>numbers through AT&Ts USA-direct service (I may have this name wrong), >>which has a toll-free number in the Netherlands. >Nope ... people who have 800 numbers agree to pay for calls >originating from certain areas (and often the entire US and Canada). >they never agreed to pay for calls coming in from abroad. Henry, it has been reported here before that this _is_ a service that AT&T provides to AT&T customers. The 800 number must be an AT&T 800 number, and the call must be billed to an AT&T or a local telephone company calling card. I placed a call to an 800 number from abroad recently. I called USA direct, gave my calling card number and the 800 number, and AT&T put the call through. I was billed for a call to a number in Pittsburgh, 412 394-6288. You may be amused by the recording (for which you will be charged) if you call this number. I wish the people posting such authoritative statements as yours would check them first. It might also behoove the Moderator to at least post a note stating that he had heard otherwise when false information is placed in the Digest, especially when the correct information has been posted earlier. john [Moderator's Note: It is impossible for me to remember every article which appears every day in the Digest; to go back through old issues looking for the 'correct' information on any given topic would take more time than I am able to spend here. I certainly am in no position to actually call the telcos and LD carriers to verify every statement made here prior to publication. That's why I keep your name on the mailing list, John: so you can read TELECOM Digest each day and give us Truthful and Correct Information when we err. PAT]
jdominey@bsga05.attmail.com (09/08/90)
From: "P. Knoppers" <knop@duteca.tudelft.nl> >American visitors having an AT&T phone card can probably reach 800 >numbers through AT&Ts USA-direct service (I may have this name wrong), >which has a toll-free number in the Netherlands. Henry Mensch responds: >Nope ... people who have 800 numbers agree to pay for calls >originating from certain areas (and often the entire US and Canada). >they never agreed to pay for calls coming in from abroad. Incorrect! The USA-Direct tariff specifically allows calls to 800 numbers in the US *if* you are using an AT&T calling card. The call is actually charged twice: once to the overseas caller for the connection to AT&T's service center in Pittsburgh; and for the 800 call from Pittsburgh to the destination. So the 800 user isn't getting charged for a call from abroad - just another call from Pennsylvania. Jack Dominey - AT&T Commercial Marketing - Tucker, GA
ballerup@diku.dk (Per Gotterup) (09/10/90)
roeber@portia.caltech.edu (Roeber, Frederick) writes: => In article <11764@accuvax.nwu.edu>, knop@duteca.tudelft.nl (P. => Knoppers) writes... => >Well, it is true from the Netherlands. It is not possible to reach 800 => >numbers from this country. Apparently they are blocked in the => >international exchanges of PTT telecom, the Dutch phone monopoly => >holder. => It's not possible from Switzerland, either. I tried. The attitude of => the Swiss PTT (like most other Swiss organizations..) is, "If we can't => make money off of it, you can't do it." Neither from Denmark. Same policy - no profit, no do! The Danish telecoms (KTAS, JTAS, FT, TeleSoenderjylland) are not individual companies but just subsidiaries of the monopoly Telecom Denmark, which is 51% government owned. Sad story... | Per Gotterup | Student, DIKU (Inst. of Comp. Sci.) | University of Copenhagen, Denmark | Internet: ballerup@freja.diku.dk
henry@garp.mit.edu (Henry Mensch) (09/11/90)
From: jdominey@bsga05.attmail.com Henry Mensch responds: >>Nope ... people who have 800 numbers agree to pay for calls >>originating from certain areas (and often the entire US and Canada). >>they never agreed to pay for calls coming in from abroad. >Incorrect! The USA-Direct tariff specifically allows calls to 800 >numbers in the US *if* you are using an AT&T calling card. Then maybe you AT&T types ought to consider telling this to your operators. One year ago (from Australia's gold coast, just south of Brisbane) and in July (from Hong Kong) I was unable to place calls via the USA Direct operator with billing to my calling card; they wanted a POTS number both times. Date: Fri, 7 Sep 90 07:30:59 PDT From: "John R. Covert 07-Sep-1990 1020" <covert@covert.enet.dec.com> >I wish the people posting such authoritative statements as yours would >check them first. It might also behoove the Moderator to at least post >a note stating that he had heard otherwise when false information is >placed in the Digest, especially when the correct information has been >posted earlier. And the Moderator responded to John Covert: >[Moderator's Note: It is impossible for me to remember every article >which appears every day in the Digest; to go back through old issues >looking for the 'correct' information on any given topic would take >more time than I am able to spend here. I certainly am in no position >to actually call the telcos and LD carriers to verify every statement >made here prior to publication. That's why I keep your name on the >mailing list, John: so you can read TELECOM Digest each day and give >us Truthful and Correct Information when we err. PAT] The Moderator is right on the mark here ... John obviously knows more than everyone, including the people who provide the service. (It's not clear how he knows that his experience in this matter is the customary state of affairs, despite evidence to the contrary). Henry Mensch / <henry@garp.mit.edu> / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA <hmensch@uk.ac.nsfnet-relay> / <henry@tts.lth.se> / <mensch@munnari.oz.au> via X.400: S=mensch; OU=informatik; P=tu-muenchen; A=dbp; C=de
roeber@portia.caltech.edu (Roeber, Frederick) (09/13/90)
ballerup@diku.dk (Per Gotterup), roeber@portia.caltech.edu
(Frederick Roeber), and knop@duteca.tudelft.nl (P. Knoppers) tell us
that 800 numbers don't work from the Netherlands, Switzerland, or
Denmark (respectively), with the national PTTs often having the
attitude, "If we can't make money off of it, you can't do it."
I should point out also that I offered to pay for the call myself (I'm
the one in Switzerland), but the operator said it was totally
impossible.
I was trying to call Citibank VISA/MC, at the customer service number
they put on their bills. Since they have now started printing on my
bills a 619 number, with instructions to call collect, I rather doubt
they wanted their 800 number restricted to NA.
On the other hand, information in the U.S. was free.
<< Frederick G.M. Roeber >>
roeber@caltech.edu or | Bat. 864, 2-A18 | Disclaimer: Are you kidding? If
roeber@caltech.bitnet | CERN, SL Div. | more people shared my opinions, the
+41 22 767 53 73 | Geneva, Switz. | world would be a much happier place!