macy@fmsystm.uucp (Macy Hallock) (10/01/90)
In article <12745@accuvax.nwu.edu>: [Discussion of bandwidth vs. channel use in progress...] >Not necessarily, BUT there should be a HUGE, financially crippling >charge for those companies that employ the usual muzak-on-hold, Well, actually there is. ASCAP charges $100/yr per trunk for licensing rebroadcast or use of recorded material (as of the last time I checked). Muzak and other music services do charge for the use of their material. (Although I suspect a lot of it gets hooked up by installers without regard to contractual obligations....) Last I heard, Muzak charged around $5/mo per trunk in this area. You can get recorrded music with the correct clearances for this use, but few people are willing to pay the freight. The actual number of locations paying proper license fees for the use of music on hold is rather low, I suspect. Considering ASCAP's often agressive enforcement activity in metropolitan areas in the past, this is a bit surprising. And yes, I have run into them...but for music over paging systems, not MOH (Music On Hold). And I do warn my customers ... not all listen, though. Macy M. Hallock, Jr. macy@NCoast.ORG uunet!aablue!fmsystm!macy [Moderator's Note: Did any of you see Bob Green's column in the Sunday papers over the weekend? He said some legal beagles are hitting on some guy in a small town in Indiana (population 800) because the guy has a radio in his store and listens to the music on the radio in-between customers. They are trying to sue him for big $$. PAT]
ror@grassys.bc.ca (Richard O'Rourke) (10/02/90)
In article <12856@accuvax.nwu.edu>, macy@fmsystm.uucp (Macy Hallock) writes: > In article <12745@accuvax.nwu.edu>: [Discussion of bandwidth vs. channel use in progress...] > Muzak and other music services do charge for the use of their > material. (Although I suspect a lot of it gets hooked up by > installers without regard to contractual obligations....) Last I > heard, Muzak charged around $5/mo per trunk in this area. Going off on a tangent: Music on hold disturbs me in any case. What is more disturbing though, is that it is often played at a level that can be misinterpreted as background noise. This can cause problems in calls routed through some types of equipment, such as fast packet gear. If companies are going to force stuff into your ear while your on hold, it might as well be an advertisement. That will give them the incentive to turn it up, and me the incentive to hang up and call back when they have the time to service me. Possibly saving bandwidth in the meantime, if going over packet gear. Richard O'Rourke: (604)438-8249 | Grass Root Systems: 436-1995 UUCP: uunet!van-bc!mplex!grassys!ror | Smart UUCP: ror@grassys.bc.ca ror@grassys.wimsey.bc.ca |
brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) (10/04/90)
One of the local datacomm suppliers that I used to deal with has instituted "hawk on hold", where I get to listen to a seemingly endless pitch for whatever it is they're hawking this week whilst they're trying to track down our salescritter. I find it incredibly annoying -- when I'm on hold, I usually park the call on my speakerphone so I don't have to keep the handset up to my ear, but with the "hawk on hold" crap playing all the time, I can't really tell when the mechanical salesman ends and the live one begins. I wonder if that company has figured out why I don't call them for quotes or other information any more. I'd also like to know if they have any concept of how much additional business they've gained from that &*^$^%$ vs how much they've lost by annoying the hell out of the customers. Piping a radio station into the hold circuit isn't much better -- like when I call a particular modem company and get to listen to their local "easy listening" radio station giving me a chance to win in their ratings contests, or maybe the traffic report for Frostbite Falls, Minnesota. It just thrills the very core of my being to know that there's a traffic jam on the main freeway of a city 2,000 miles away, yes indeed! Even if the station isn't hawking something, it's virtually certain they're not playing the same kind of music the radio in my office is. I've mentioned how annoying music-on-hold and hawk-on-hold is to salescritters before. I usually get the old shuck-and-jive "the boss likes it and I can't do anything about it anyway" as an answer. My answer to THAT is to hang up. Music on hold is bad enough. This selling schpiel is obscene. As is said, vote with your feet. Tell these companies that you won't deal with them because they have such an unprofessional, nay, CALLOUS disregard for their customers. Brian
lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) (10/05/90)
Browbeating the poor dishonest sales critter doesn't really help much. Try notifying the VP or Marketing, Sales, or even the CEO as to why you are taking your business elsewhere. It does work ... surprising how many hotels are beginning to inject some sanity into their telephone rip-offs (er, make that "surcharges") when a few guests contacted the owner or franchisee.
dave@westmark.westmark.com (Dave Levenson) (10/05/90)
I encountered a really sensible use for the MOH channel of an
automatic call distributor a few years ago. (An automatic call
distributor is the machine that tells you something like: "This is the
XY&Z Company; all agents are busy. Please stay on the line..." and
manages a queue of inbound calls until an agent is available.)
I was calling the Washington DC Flight Service Station. A Flight
Service Station is an office maintained by the FAA where a pilot calls
to ask for weather information, and file a flight plan before
departure. Today, a lot of this is done by dial-up computer access,
but a few years ago, one did it all verbally.
If the weather was super-good, or terrible, you'd always reach an
agent (they're called briefers) right away. If the weather is so good
that you don't need a briefing, it's easy to get one. If the
weather's so bad you can't possibly complete your flight safely,
nobody is calling either.
It was one of those somewhere in-between days. I wanted to fly home
from DCA (Washington National) to MMU (Morristown, NJ). The phone was
answered something like: "This is the Washington Flight Service, all
briefers are busy. While you're waiting, Washington weather this hour
is three thousand scattered, ceiling six thousand overcast, visibility
seven ... Baltimore, at 12:00, three thousand five hundred ... and so
on. It included Richmond, Philadelphia, Charleston, and ever-widening
circles from DCA, eventually including New York. By the time I
reached the briefer, I didn't need to take his time asking for weather
-- I'd taken notes while in the ACD queue. I just dictated the
flightplan, wished him a good day, and headed for the airport.
A real time-saver for all concerned.
PS: Washington Flight Service no longer provides "aviation weather on
hold" as of the last time I flew in that area.
Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com
Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave
Warren, NJ, USA AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave
[The Man in the Mooney] Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857oheare@uunet.uu.net (David O'Heare) (10/05/90)
In article <12995@accuvax.nwu.edu>, brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) writes: > [stuff about music/sales spiels on hold deleted] If anyone has cause to call WordPerfect for support and gets put on hold, they do things a little differently: there is a _live_ disk jockey playing New-Agey sorts of music and giving reports on the congestion of the phone lines. Good quality sound, and an 800 number that works from Canada. Nice that somebody thinks about the folks on hold. Dave O'Heare oheare@gandalf.ca +1 613 723 6500
jj1028@homxc.att.com (Maurice R Baker) (10/06/90)
In article <12995@accuvax.nwu.edu>, brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) writes: > Music on hold is bad enough. This selling schpiel is obscene. OK ... how's this for an idea: If you're going to be "stacked up" on hold for any length of time, the answering system (tried to choose a suitably generic label) should give you the choice of: Silence [maybe a brief reassurance every minute or so that you're still connected, for the faint of heart.] Perhaps a small selection of different music types [i.e., radio stations/Muzak/etc. that play country, rock, easy listening, classical.] A recorded sales pitch or description of the product line Leaving a message for call back (if necessary) when someone is available. [Sure beatshaving to wait ten minutes for the "1st available agent" when all you want is to request a catalog!] -etc. etc. etc.- ... all selected by pressing a Touch-Tone digit. Maybe they could even use the stats on the music type requested to determine demographics of callers, and that sort of thing (just an idea) ... could help them choose where to place future advertising, et al. Any comments? M. Baker homxc!jj1028 or jj1028 at homxc.att.com
brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) (10/07/90)
In article <13095@accuvax.nwu.edu> jj1028@homxc.att.com (Maurice R Baker) writes: >If you're going to be "stacked up" on hold for any length of >time, the answering system (tried to choose a suitably generic label) >should give you the choice of: > (several ideas for what you listen to while caught in a telephone > traffic jam) While those are nice suggestions, they miss the point. If more companies started regarding call that was abandoned while on hold as a LOST SALE, they soon start doing something about making sure people weren't put on hold quite so much. It's simple: if you call an organization and get parked for an impolite amount of time, whenever practical, abandon that call and call the competition. If you have to deal with that firm, and it's appropriate, simply ask the clerk to inform his manager that you are unhappy with the length of time you had to wait and you are now much more inclined to call the competition. On a related note, I recently attended the TCA show here in San Diego, and came away with the impression that the largest single emphasis of the vendors at this year's show was on more new and wonderful ways for people to talk to machines. It's sad that a device that was once designed to make communication between humans much easier is now being engineered to make it much less likely. A human-factors consideration: when I was making my living as a computer consultant a few years ago, I became sensitive to the fact that people often needed to call me most when they were having problems with their computers, and that the last thing someone who is already upset with his machine needs to hear is another machine answering the phone when he calls for help. Several of my customers remarked how grateful they were that I had SOMEONE (me or the answering service) available 24 hours to answer their call, even if all they could do was take a message or promise to page me. It was clear to me that the $25 a month for a real person (i.e., an answering service) more than paid for itself in the number of jobs I got. Fooey on whizz-bang technology: people want to talk to people, not machines. Brian
jeremy@cs.swarthmore.edu (Jeremy Brest) (10/08/90)
In <13121@accuvax.nwu.edu> brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor) writes: >It's sad that a device that was once >designed to make communication between humans much easier is now being >engineered to make it much less likely. >Several of my customers >remarked how grateful they were that I had SOMEONE (me or the >answering service) available 24 hours to answer their call, even if >all they [sic] could do was take a message or promise to page me. >It was clear to me that the $25 a month for a real person (i.e., an >answering service) more than paid for itself in the number of jobs I >got. Fooey on whizz-bang technology: people want to talk to people, >not machines. Brian, if what you want to do is communicate, then having people grateful is not the right metric to base decision making on. People leave watered down messages with secretaries and answering services. Voice mail and answering machines may be displeasing at first, we find that people leave more detailed messages on them, and for good reason: The intended recipient hears the message. It is not translated by someone who isn't current on the subject. That means that the caller is able to make assumptions about the listener's knowledge on the subject. People take a long time to become comfortable with new modes of communication. But it is wrong and reactionary to say that voice mail and answering machines make communications between and among people less likely -- they make it more likely. They just make it less likely that people will need to be on the telephone at the same time to communicate effectively. (For a pretty decent parallel, look at how email improves communications in settings where it is well used.) Jeremy Brest Jeremy_Brest@NeXT.com
john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (10/08/90)
On Oct 7 at 16:05, Brian Kantor <brian@ucsd.edu> writes: > It was clear to me that the $25 a month for a real person (i.e., an > answering service) more than paid for itself in the number of jobs I > got. Fooey on whizz-bang technology: people want to talk to people, > not machines. And where, oh where, pray tell, do you find this magical answering service? I have been in business for two decades selling and now designing (and selling) equipment and have completely given up on answering services. Unfortunately, I am not, at present, large enough to have a full-time secretary and so I must resort to mechanical means since I am frequently out (and almost never go into the office). Answering services? Phooey! The high turnover morons can't spell to save their lives. They transpose digits in phone numbers. They, themselves, put people on hold forever. "Announcementtechnologiescanyouhold?" And that's after about fifteen rings. And heaven help the customer who actually thinks that he is talking to a bona fide human and starts talking TECHNICAL! (Those messages usually ended up in the service's File 13.) Checking for messages is a real treat. "This is 505, do have any messages?" "Oh yes, Mr. Higdon, quite a few -- oh could you hold please?" [long wait] "Oh, sorry to keep you waiting. Let's see ... An urgent call from a Mr. [unintelligible] who says that your space in San Francisco ... Oh, excuse me just a moment." [long wait] "Sorry. Let's see ... You got the first message..." "No, I didn't understand the name." "Oh, it was ... hold on please." And on and on. Mind you this isn't one service, but the SOP for every one of the six or so services that I tried. And another thing: It wasn't $25/month. It was more like $120-$150 per month. If the morons were underpaid, then someone was getting very rich. You can keep answering services. I (and I'm sure my customers) would rather speak into a mechanical contrivance any day of the week rather than be faced with an over-priced answering service bimbo from hell. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! [Moderator's Note: There are good answering services. Twenty years ago I used one for quite awhile: Annex Telephone Answering, downtown in the Chicago Temple Building. They were good, and they offered flat rate service which as I recall was $35 per month. That included paging me to 'call the office' when they had a message. This wa a bridged service, i.e. they had an extension of my line which came up on their board. Whether or not an answering machine/voicemail is preferable to an answering service depends on the nature of the business and the temperment of the caller. A physician, psychiatrist or social worker might be better off with a live, trained person at an answering service specializing in that sort of client. Annex carried a lot of professional clients; they opened for business about 1920. PAT]
bicker@hoqax.att.com (Brian Charles Kohn) (10/08/90)
=> > Music on hold is bad enough. This selling schpiel is obscene. => OK ... how's this for an idea: => If you're going to be "stacked up" on hold for any length of => time, the answering system (tried to choose a suitably generic label) => should give you the choice of: I want music on hold, interrupted every 30 seconds telling me where I am in queue. Extra points if they give me a good estimate of how long I'll still be waiting. Brian Charles Kohn AT&T Bell Laboratories Quality Process Center Quality Management System E-MAIL: att!hoqax!bicker (bicker@hoqax.ATT.COM) Consultant PHONE: (908) 949-5850 FAX: (908) 949-7724