john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) (11/29/90)
On Nov 28 at 22:22, TELECOM Moderator writes: > [Moderator's Note: Whoever wishes to answer Brian's questions can > answer one for me also: How come if I have call-waiting on my line > dialing my own number does not produce a call-waiting signal instead > of a busy signal? Simply put, when you dial your own number, the test for busy is technically performed before you have finished dialing. You have a 1AESS, if memory serves, so you can hear some of the call states quite well. In older generics (and some newer non-Pac*Bell ones), call waiting and three-way will not work until the "ka-chunk" -- the time when you are connected with the interoffice trunk or the other number in your switch. When you dial your own number, your line is tested for busy, and the action is taken based on the instantaneous condition of your line (i.e., off-hook, dialing) which is "send to busy trunk". Call waiting has not yet been enabled. > I notice if I go out of my CO to do it, i.e. I use > my phone to dial my 800 number which comes back to ring on the same > line then I *do* get a call-waiting signal. Likewise a call to > 10835-1-700-my number goes out to Telecom*USA, comes back and gives me > a call-wwaiting signal. Dialing my own number direct returns busy. > Why? PAT] When you do that, your switch is out of the picture. You dial, finish dialing, "ka-chunk" (you are connected to the IEC trunk) and the carrier routes the call back to your number. At that moment the condition is different than the above. You are off-hook, dialing completed, connected to trunk. Action taken: switch you to conference trunk, send tone, send RBT to caller. Pac*Bell Weenie Note: In the Pac*Bell implementations of the 1AESS (W.E. should never have provided them with the source!), you would still get busy, even when dialing through Telecom*USA. PB's generic will not allow CW or 3W until the first call is supervised. Pac*Bell had some lame reason for doing this, but I forgot what it was. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
jmiller@wendy.bgsu.edu (Jim Miller) (11/30/90)
In issue 852 of the Digest, Brian McMahon writes: > No problem, I thought, I'll just dial my own number. Much >to my surprise, instead of the expected busy tones, I got a recording >approximately like this: "You have dialled a party on your own line. >Please hang up to allow the other phone to ring." (This is an inexact >quote from memory, but you get the idea.) >(BTW, this is GTE territory, area code 515.) >Can someone explain to this poor telecom-illiterate in the hinterland why >the H*ll things are set up this way? Is the switch really incapable of >distinguishing between a private and a party line? I am also located in GTE territory, area code 419. I do not know what model switch I am on, but it provides features such as call waiting and call forwarding. I also have some 'extended' features, like 'busy number redial' and 'saved number redial'. My switch replies in the same way as yours with reference to dialing your own number - just hang up and you get a ringback. Besides the obvious usefulness on a party line, I imagine this is provided as a (free) FEATURE to those with private lines: it is a rudimentary intercom. By being able to ring back your own line, it allows you (in the house) to ring an extension phone (which might be out in the workshop, at the pool deck or in the upstairs dining room). >[Moderator's Note: Whoever wishes to answer Brian's questions can >answer one for me also: How come if I have call-waiting on my line >dialing my own number does not produce a call-waiting signal instead >of a busy signal? I notice if I go out of my CO to do it, i.e. I use >my phone to dial my 800 number which comes back to ring on the same >line then I *do* get a call-waiting signal. Likewise a call to >10835-1-700-my number goes out to Telecom*USA, comes back and gives me >a call-wwaiting signal. Dialing my own number direct returns busy. >Why? PAT] Pat - I cannot answer your question, but something similar seems to happen on my switch: If I dial the local weather number and get a busy signal, then flash and dial the SAME NUMBER AGAIN on the 'three-way' dialtone, I get a fast busy (after a long delay). Maybe the switch notices that the call I just attempted is to the same number as the first (busy) call? Could the behavior we are seeing be due to the fact that the call originates and terminates in the same switch, without ever leaving the CO? Maybe the switch has more 'knowledge' about such an intra-CO call. This brings up two questions I have. First, I tried one time to use the 'busy number redial' on the abovementioned weather number. No luck - I get a fast busy indicating it can't be done. This weather number is in the same town, served by GTE, on a regular exchange (ie not a 'choke' exchange). Upon further investigation, and after talking to a CO technician, I am told that 'busy number redial' is not usable on a 'number with multiple lines'. I assume this means I can't use it when the target number is part of a hunt group? Why? Second, from the features I have described above, does it sound like I am on a switch that is already set up to supply things like Caller-ID, call-trace, return-call, and the related features? Could GTE enable these if they obtained proper tariffs from the PUC? /* Jim Miller jmiller@wendy.bgsu.edu */
IZZYAS1@oac.ucla.edu (Andy Jacobson) (12/01/90)
I should note that from the GTD-5 and 2EAX switches here in GTE-land, just dialing your own number is how you get ringback. (See TELECOM Digest Guide to Special Prefixes/Numbers.) In TELECOM Digest, V10 #855, John Higdon <john@bovine.ati.com> writes: >Pac*Bell Weenie Note: In the Pac*Bell implementations of the 1AESS >(W.E. should never have provided them with the source!), you would >still get busy, even when dialing through Telecom*USA. PB's generic >will not allow CW or 3W until the first call is supervised. Pac*Bell >had some lame reason for doing this, but I forgot what it was. With 3W, I assume Pac*Bell does this to prevent you from invoking the second dial tone if you're trying to hang up (with no answer), and dial again . GTE's 1E software thankfully does this too at least within the same CO. (I say thankfully, as it seems you have to go on hook for an eternity of 3 or 4 seconds to get rid of the first call before getting fresh dial tone.) Another reason I can see for Pac*Bell's implementation would be so that you don't switch to the second call before the first called party answers, to dead air. This would also prevent you from crank connecting two calls to each other before they answer. (This sort of "mix and match"ing is probably a major crank caller fantasy.) With CW, dead air also applies. Might there also be some detection problem if you come back from CW (switchhook flash) at the same instant that the first called party answers (DC reversal or voltage drop as supervision begins)? With CW looped outside the local switch, GTE differs. If I call number A (GTD-5 switch) from number B (1AESS) that number A is forwarded to, I get CW beep before I hear distant ringing. I can flash to put the orig segment on hold and answer the loop around, and flash back and forth to my heart's content (always with one segment or the other on hold). Supervision would appear to play no part in it. However, when I hang up on either segment, it does not ring me to tell me that there is a call on hold. Though logically, if I hang up on the loop around segment it should This gets to be rather abstract stuff after a while. Andy Jacobson<izzyas1@oac.ucla.edu>