john@mojave.ati.com (John Higdon) (11/26/90)
On Nov 25 at 11:41, TELECOM Moderator writes: > His monthly invoices even looked > *identical* to IBT's -- even with 'other charges and credits' !! His > bills did not say IBT, but they did include the old Bell System logo > of the bell inside the circle, which I guess belongs to no one now. PAT] Patrick, I believe you are mistaken. Unlike the "walking fingers" which no one ever bothered to copyright or register and as a result found itself in the public domain, the bell logo was made the collective property of the seven RBOC's in the MFJ. I believe there is at least one RBOC still actively using the logo even though most have dropped it. Southwestern Bell puts it on its telephone products and there may be an eastern RBOC that still uses it. It is not in the public domain. John Higdon <john@bovine.ati.com> (hiding out in the desert)
carols@drilex.dri.mgh.com (Carol Springs) (11/27/90)
In Volume 10, Issue 845, John Higdon writes: >...the bell logo was made the >collective property of the seven RBOC's in the MFJ. I believe there is >at least one RBOC still actively using the logo even though most have >dropped it. New England Telephone uses the logo on its bills and envelopes. Perhaps NET's continued use of the bell-in-circle serves to emphasize NET's status as a "real" telco despite the absence of "Bell" in its name. Carol Springs carols@drilex.dri.mgh.com
gs26@prism.gatech.edu (Glenn R. Stone) (11/27/90)
In <14949@accuvax.nwu.edu> john@mojave.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: [about the "bell" logo being PD] >Patrick, I believe you are mistaken. Unlike the "walking fingers" >[...] the Bell logo was made the >collective property of the seven RBOC's in the MFJ. I believe there is >at least one RBOC still actively using the logo even though most have >dropped it. Yep. Southern Bell still uses the old "Ma Bell" symbol; it's right here on my phone bill envelope. It's also high atop the Southern Bell tower on West Peachtree, three blocks from the Georgia Tech campus where I'm typing this. They're even using the same font to spell "Southern Bell"... although the little subtitle "A BELLSOUTH Company" is different. Another interesting tidbit in my phone bill this month: Southern Bell is now implementing a late charge. Effective 1/1/91, anyone who has an unpaid past due balance of more than $30 will be charged 1.25% per month. No comment. Glenn R. Stone (gs26@prism.gatech.edu) -- Atlanta, GA [Moderator's Note: Most telcos have charged a late fee for years. It really is fair, considering they have to pay their bills like anyone else. PAT]
barmar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Barry Margolin) (11/28/90)
In article <14949@accuvax.nwu.edu> john@mojave.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: >the Bell logo was made the collective property of the seven RBOC's >in the MFJ. I believe there is at least one RBOC still actively using >the logo even though most have dropped it. >Southwestern Bell puts it on its telephone products and there may be >an eastern RBOC that still uses it. It is not in the public domain. NYNEX still uses it. We had a meeting today with a couple of NYNEX representatives, and the Bell logo is emblazoned on their business cards. Barry Margolin Thinking Machines Corp. barmar@think.com {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
DREUBEN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Douglas Scott Reuben) (11/28/90)
Hi- John Higdon posted about use of the old Bell System logo among the RBOCs: I know NYNEX (New York Tel and New England Tel) uses the Bell in its logo, as do the individual operating companies of NY Tel and New England Tel. (And their Mobile division, occasionally...) An employee at NE Tel told me a few years ago that NYNEX wanted to get rid of the Bell logo wherever the word "NYNEX" appears, but so far they don't seem to have implemented this yet. SNET (Southern New England Tel, NOT part of NYNEX, thankfully!), doesn't use the Bell logo anymore (although it has replaced it with a cheap copy), but their mobile division (SONECOR? or is it SNET-Mobilcom?) still uses the Bell on some of their literature, probably to distinguish it from Metro Mobile, the "A" cellular carrier. (They are not an "RBOC", nor in one.) Bell Atlantic (C&P Tel, Diamond State Tel, Bell of PA, NJ Bell, more?) still uses the Bell symbol on all of its divisions, ie, "Bell Atlantic" the RBOC, all of the local Bells, and the mobile division. Bell South (well, ok, whatever the Bell is in New Orleans - South Central Bell?) also seems to use the logo, although I am not sure what the mobile division uses. I'm not sure about Ameritech (Midwest) as a whole, but I THINK the payphones at O'Hare and Midway said Illinois Bell and had the Bell logo next to it. (This was six months ago, so maybe it changed.) Don't know if "Ameritech" the RBOC uses it, though. US West (at least the ex-Pacific Northwest Bell BOC) USED to use it, until maybe about January, 1990. I have a Bend, Oregon directory from 1989, and it has the logo, but the newer 1990-1991 book does not. If I remember correctly, there was a small passage in the newer book stating that PNB was changing its name to "US West", or something to that effect. As to Pac*Bell, well, they kept the word "Bell", but I guess the like the highly original asterisk symbol a lot better! :-) (They must have searched REALLY hard for that logo! "Gee ... let's use one of the buttons on the phone!") Interestingly, I see a lot of their products in stores (phones, answering machines, etc.) that say "Pac*Tel" and have the Bell logo next to it, but I don't see it anywhere else. (There is also some other company, maybe it is Northwestern Bell?, that has a logo "Bell Phones" in bold type and a Bell logo next to it. There is also Southwestern Bell, which has the standard SWB/Bell logo ... nothing new there.) Anyone know what Cincinnati Bell (not a "real" BOC, and certainly not an RBOC) uses? Maybe they borrowed SNET's! (or more likely, SNET borrowed Cincinnati Bell's! :-) ) Doug dreuben@eagle.wesleyan.edu dreuben@wesleyan.bitnet
pmd@cbvox.att.com (Paul M Dubuc) (11/29/90)
In article <14977@accuvax.nwu.edu>, (Douglas Scott Reuben) writes: > I'm not sure about Ameritech (Midwest) as a whole, but I THINK the > payphones at O'Hare and Midway said Illinois Bell and had the Bell > logo next to it. (This was six months ago, so maybe it changed.) Ohio Bell (an Ameritech Company) still uses the Bell logo. Paul Dubuc att!cbvox!pmd
graff@mlpvm2.iinus1.ibm.com (Michael Graff) (11/30/90)
In issue 848, Douglas Scott Reuben writes: > As to Pac*Bell, well, they kept the word "Bell", but I guess the > like the highly original asterisk symbol a lot better! :-) (They > must have searched REALLY hard for that logo! "Gee ... let's use > one of the buttons on the phone!") You'll appreciate a COCOT I saw last night. In a font that looked pretty close to the one used by PACIFIC*BELL, it said WESTERN#BELL. I guess other companies will have to use one of the digits, or perhaps they can use a word with DEF or TUV or OPER in it. :-) I had very little time to play with it, but at first glance it seemed to be pretty reasonable for a COCOT. Dialing 10288 did not get an immediate intercept message. The label explicitly stated that MCI was the default carrier. I'm not sure whether the name and logo for WESTERN#BELL was meant to be deceptive, or if it was an inside joke. Probably some of both. Michael
tad@ssc.UUCP (Tad Cook) (12/03/90)
In article <14977@accuvax.nwu.edu>, DREUBEN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Douglas Scott Reuben) writes: > US West (at least the ex-Pacific Northwest Bell BOC) USED to use it, > until maybe about January, 1990. I have a Bend, Oregon directory from > 1989, and it has the logo, but the newer 1990-1991 book does not. If I > remember correctly, there was a small passage in the newer book > stating that PNB was changing its name to "US West", or something to > that effect. My latest bill from US West has the old Bell logo on it. I guess they still like to be identified as a "real" phone company. It is also on the Seattle 1990/91 directory covers. Tad Cook Seattle, WA Packet: KT7H @ N7HFZ.WA.USA.NA Phone: 206/527-4089 MCI Mail: 3288544 Telex: 6503288544 MCI UW USENET:...uw-beaver!sumax!amc-gw!ssc!tad or, tad@ssc.UUCP
bapat@uunet.uu.net (Subodh Bapat) (12/04/90)
Talking about the Bell logo, is there any truth to the rumor that, once long ago, AT&T lost its right to use the Bell logo, as the copyright expired and they forgot to renew it? The story I heard was that they had to pay a lot of money to get it back from some smart entrepreneur who, in the meantime, sneaked in and got the copyright for himself. Anyone have any facts to substantiate/dispel this rumor? Subodh Bapat bapat@rm1.uu.net OR ...uunet!rm1!bapat MS E-204, PO Box 407044, Racal-Milgo, Ft Lauderdale, FL 33340 (305) 846-6068 [Moderator's Note: I've never heard that story before. Readers? PAT]
gs26@prism.gatech.edu (Glenn R. Stone) (12/05/90)
In <15171@accuvax.nwu.edu> mailrus!uflorida!rm1!bapat@uunet.uu.net (Subodh Bapat) writes: >Talking about the Bell logo, is there any truth to the rumor that, >once long ago, AT&T lost its right to use the Bell logo, as the >copyright expired and they forgot to renew it? The story I heard was >that they had to pay a lot of money to get it back from some smart >entrepreneur who, in the meantime, sneaked in and got the copyright >for himself. ^^^^^^^^^ The use of the word "copyright" itself renders the entire rumor at least partially bogus ... A logo or word is subject to *trademark*, not copyright; once either is lost (trademarks are good so long as the company chooses to enforce it; copyrights have a definite lifetime) the mark or work is Public Domain and no one can acquire exclusive rights to it anymore. (Trademarks don't "expire"; they lose their exclusivity when a company chooses not to enforce them. Once this occurs, the company cannot then chose to again start enforcing it, however.) Moreover, the "Bell" logo would qualify as a "famous" trademark (like the Golden Arches of McDonalds or the Checkerboard Square of Ralston Purina) and the Patents and Trademarks Office would disallow registry in the first place, even for something totally unrelated. So on a purely legal argument, I'd say you've got yourself an urban legend. Glenn R. Stone (gs26@prism.gatech.edu)
dave@westmark.westmark.com (Dave Levenson) (12/05/90)
In article <15171@accuvax.nwu.edu>, mailrus!uflorida!rm1!bapat (Subodh Bapat) writes: > Talking about the Bell logo, is there any truth to the rumor that, > once long ago, AT&T lost its right to use the Bell logo, as the ... I have heard this story, but I regarded it as urban legend. In the version I heard, somebody in Texas opened an answering service bureau called 'Blue Bell Answering Service' using the familiar Bell-in-a-Circle logo. The story goes on to say that he sold the rights to his logo to AT&T, and with the proceeds, shut down his service bureau and retired -- at age 25 or so. Anybody else heard this one? Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave Warren, NJ, USA AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857
scjones%thor@uunet.uu.net (Larry Jones) (12/06/90)
Doug Reuben asks: > Anyone know what Cincinnati Bell (not a "real" BOC, and certainly not > an RBOC) uses? Maybe they borrowed SNET's! (or more likely, SNET > borrowed Cincinnati Bell's! :-) ) Well, they may not be a "real" BOC (AT&T never owned more than a minority interest and was not forced to divest it), they are still using the Bell logo as befits their name. So no, they didn't lend their logo to SNET (although they have sold their billing system to a LOT of other phone companies!).
jmm@uunet.uu.net (John Macdonald) (12/06/90)
In article <15171@accuvax.nwu.edu> mailrus!uflorida!rm1!bapat (Subodh Bapat) writes: |Talking about the Bell logo, is there any truth to the rumor that, |once long ago, AT&T lost its right to use the Bell logo, as the |copyright expired and they forgot to renew it? The story I heard was |that they had to pay a lot of money to get it back from some smart |entrepreneur who, in the meantime, sneaked in and got the copyright |for himself. |Anyone have any facts to substantiate/dispel this rumor? I don't know about the Bell Logo, but before it gets dismissed as an urban legend, I can cite a somewhat similar case that definitely did happen. In the late 1970's (and possibly still today) there was some difference about registering copyrights in the province of British Columbia compared to the rest of Canada. There was at least one person in BC who made use of this fact to pre-register trademarks of companies that seemed likely to eventually want to start operating in BC. For that reason, at that time, Perkin-Elmer Data Systems used a different company name within BC than they used in the rest of Canada and the USA. This was just after they changed their name from being Interdata (and there was a different operating name for Interdata in BC too). John Macdonald jmm@eci386
ndallen@contact.uucp (Nigel Allen) (12/07/90)
Before the former Bell System adopted the stylized bell logo that Bellcore and some operating companies still use, AT&T and its associated companies used a more natural-looking bell-in-a-circle. You may notice this on some older manhole covers. Bell Canada used the older bell-in-a-circle logo for a long time (with the accompanying text "local and long distance service", I believe). It never adopted the stylized bell of the former Bell System. Rather, it replaced its old logo with a wordmark, the word "Bell" in a bold sans-serif face, normally reproduced in blue. A year or two after divesture, I was shopping in one of the grungier areas of Toronto, where merchants use the cheapest possible shopping bags, which often are ones bearing the name of a store that went out of business (and so the store's liquidators sold the bags for relatively little). One of the plastic bags bore the American variant of the Bell logo and the name "Bell Phone Center", or whatever the storefront outlets of the Bell System were called divesture. I assume the bags were sold for very little (and made their way to Toronto) after AT&T was forced to stop using the Bell logo and replaced it with its present "Death Star". Bell Canada's parent company, BCE Inc. (formerly Bell Canada Enterprises) uses a stylized BCE in brown, to avoid any confusion with Bell Canada. Bell Canada and its affiliates avoid using the word "Bell" as part of the name of their U.S. operations. Bell-Northern Research is the research arm of Northern Telecom (with a minority shareholding by Bell Canada); the company's U.S. subsidiary is simply BNR Inc. Similarly, Bell Canada International's U.S. unit is just BCI Inc. (although I think some BCI installation activities may have been transferred to a company called Protocol, which may or may not be a Bell Canada affiliate set up a few years ago to franchise telephone answering services). Nigel Allen ndallen@contact.uucp 52 Manchester Avenue telephone (416) 535-8916; fax (416) 978-7736 Toronto, Ontario, Canada M6G 1V3
julian@bongo.uucp (Julian Macassey) (12/12/90)
In article <15200@accuvax.nwu.edu> dave@westmark.westmark.com (Dave Levenson) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 864, Message 3 of 14 >In article <15171@accuvax.nwu.edu>, mailrus!uflorida!rm1!bapat >(Subodh Bapat) writes: >> Talking about the Bell logo, is there any truth to the rumor that, >> once long ago, AT&T lost its right to use the Bell logo, as the >I have heard this story, but I regarded it as urban legend. In the >version I heard, somebody in Texas opened an answering service >bureau called 'Blue Bell Answering Service' using the familiar >Bell-in-a-Circle logo. The story goes on to say that he sold the >rights to his logo to AT&T, and with the proceeds, shut down his >service bureau and retired -- at age 25 or so. >Anybody else heard this one? All I can add to this is that the twenty-five year old Texan must have had lotsa cash and savvy to go to Bass & Yeager on Sunset Boulevard, Hollywood and pay them several thousand - possibly a G or so to do him a logo. Bass & Yeager do corporate logos (Exxon, AT&T Death star etc) and movie titles. So the old Bell bought a logo from a Texas kid rather than a company that makes 'em to order? As far as I know, Bass & Yeager did the Bell in a circle logo. I am not sure who did the old black silouette "Bell System" logo. That is my favourite. Maybe we should have a telecom archive of "telco urban legends". We could include the psychic dog that knew when the phone was ringing. The lifetime credit-card number that Paul Newman was tired of having. And the one the telcos perpetuated, how you can "Damage the network with foreign equipment". Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo.info.com ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian N6ARE@N6YN (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495