hardarso@cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) (01/05/91)
I realize this must be a very elementary question, but I've gone through the last 400+ messages and found no reference to it so here goes: I need a list that highlights the differences between telephonic equipment in the U.S. and Europe (Scandinavia, actually). I'm particularly concerned with whether the touch-tone features on a Panasonic phone bought in USA will work in Scandinavia - or whether the phone will work at all for that matter. Will be waiting anxiously for answers since I bought the phone already... Many thanks in advance, Kari Hardarson 217 Jackson Circle Chapel Hill, NC 27514
hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) (01/08/91)
In article <15804@accuvax.nwu.edu> Kari Hardarson <hardarso@cs. unc.edu> writes: >I'm particularly concerned with whether the touch-tone features on a >phone bought in USA will work in Scandinavia - or whether >the phone will work at all for that matter. Yes, the phone will work. I have tried myself to use U.S.-bought phones in Sweden. However, a few things to keep in mind (this applies to Sweden, and may or may not apply to the rest of Scandinavia): 1. Get a touch-tone phone. If you have to use pulse dial, Sweden had their "0" where the U.S. "1" was, so you have to change all phone numbers around according to this cipher: for "0" dial "1", for "1" dial "2", etc, for "8" dial "9", for "9" dial "0". This does not apply to touch-tone. 2. (This applies to all Europe): Do not bring a cordless phone! Europe is in a different ITU region (1) than the U.S. (2), and have different frequency allocation. It is illegal to bring in a cordless phone, being an unauthorized radio transmitter. 3. Swedish touch-tone phones have 13 buttons, "0".."9", "*", "#", "R". I don't know what the "R" button does, but its functions are similar to the ones U.S. phone companies flash the hook for, so it might be exactly what it does. 4. The Swedish phone net provides a lower current level than any other phone system in the world. Thus, a current-hungry foreign phone may not work properly. It shouldn't matter for modern electronic ones. 5. Get a phone that supports all four RJ-11 wires (including black/yellow). Swedish Televerket warns that a "pirate" (non-compliant) telephone may not hang up properly, running up your bill long after you hung up. 6. Get a Swedish phone cord when you get there; Televerket has recently picked up on the rest of the world and started using RJ-11 modular plugs, so you can easily get a phone cord with a modular plug in one end and a Swedish phone plug in the other in any local Telebutik (Televerket shop). Happy travelling! H. Peter Anvin +++ A Strange Stranger +++ N9ITP/SM4TKN +++ INTERNET: hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu FIDONET: 1:115/989.4 BITNET: HPA@NUACC RBBSNET: 8:970/101.4
rees@pisa.ifs.umich.edu (Jim Rees) (01/11/91)
In article <15893@accuvax.nwu.edu>, hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) writes: > this applies to Sweden, and may or may not apply to the rest of > Scandinavia ... >5. Get a phone that supports all four RJ-11 wires (including black/yellow). > Swedish Televerket warns that a "pirate" (non-compliant) telephone may > not hang up properly, running up your bill long after you hung up. I know of at least the following uses of the "second pair" (yellow/black): - 10 vac for the dial light in older Princess(tm) and Trimline(tm) phones. - Off-hook indication for key sets. - Ring voltage for party lines. - Ground on the yellow wire for shielded twisted pair. - Second line for two-line phones. Which of these does the Swedish system expect/use?
lars@spectrum.cmc.com (Lars Poulsen) (01/11/91)
In article <15893@accuvax.nwu.edu> hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) writes: >[Telephones built for US] will work [in Sweden]. ... >However, a few things to keep in mind: >5. Get a phone that supports all four RJ-11 wires (including black/yellow). > Swedish Televerket warns that a "pirate" (non-compliant) telephone may > not hang up properly, running up your bill long after you hung up. What do they put ON the second pair? A reference ground for ground-start lines? A signalling hookswitch closure? Most *consumer* units that have the second pair connected these days would expect to find a second line there!! Surely that is not what Televerket expects? Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer CMC Rockwell lars@CMC.COM
julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey) (01/11/91)
In article <15893@accuvax.nwu.edu> hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 11, Issue 17, Message 4 of 9 >In article <15804@accuvax.nwu.edu> Kari Hardarson <hardarso@cs. >unc.edu> writes: >>I'm particularly concerned with whether the touch-tone features on a >>phone bought in USA will work in Scandinavia - or whether >>the phone will work at all for that matter. >3. Swedish touch-tone phones have 13 buttons, "0".."9", "*", "#", "R". I > don't know what the "R" button does, but its functions are similar to > the ones U.S. phone companies flash the hook for, so it might be exactly > what it does. The "R" is the "Recall" button and is usually a ground button used to signal a PBX or CO. It is used only for feature control and is not needed for POTS service. >4. The Swedish phone net provides a lower current level than any other > phone system in the world. Thus, a current-hungry foreign phone may not > work properly. It shouldn't matter for modern electronic ones. The Swedish minimum line current is 12 mA, The U.S. (Bell) spec is 20 mA. But your standard 2500 (AT&T Desk Phone) set will work pretty well down to 14 mA. Cheap and nasty imported phones may not work on Swedish line current, they don't do too well on U.S. line current either. >5. Get a phone that supports all four RJ-11 wires (including black/yellow). > Swedish Televerket warns that a "pirate" (non-compliant) telephone may > not hang up properly, running up your bill long after you hung up. See 3 above re the R button. But the kicker here is, phones sold in the U.S. neither connect nor use the second pair (Black/Yellow). So this is difficult or impossible to do. U.S. Phones using both pairs are either two line phones or have A1 lead control. Some old phones also used the yellow wire as a ground wire for grounded ringing. But none of those U.S. scenarios will fit the CCITT R button. More correctly, a U.S. phone will work fine, but not have the recall button unless you wire it in yourself. I do not see how that can affect the call hanging up. Hanging up the phone disconnects Tip and Ring and stops current flow. Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo.info.com ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian N6ARE@N6YN (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495
hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) (01/12/91)
In article <15966@accuvax.nwu.edu> rees@citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees) writes: >>5. Get a phone that supports all four RJ-11 wires (including black/yellow). >> Swedish Televerket warns that a "pirate" (non-compliant) telephone may >> not hang up properly, running up your bill long after you hung up. >I know of at least the following uses of the "second pair" (yellow/black): > - Off-hook indication for key sets. [List of other uses deleted] >Which of these does the Swedish system expect/use? I would presume the off-hook indication, since what Televerket complains about is that non-"T"-certified (remember, Televerket is like FCC and pre-1984 AT&T combined) phones may not hang up correctly. In Sweden, a phone call is not necessarily disconnected unless *both* parties hang up, thus you can: 1. Ask your party to wait, hang up, and grab another phone somewhere else (there is a timeout in most areas). 2. Trace a harassing call even if the harasser hangs up. Also, in Sweden the indoor wiring is serial, not parallel, meaning that if you lift the handset on one phone, you disconnect all phones with lower priority, i.e. further away from the incoming line. This looks to me like it almost has to be some form of on/off relay here? (Maybe someone at ericsson.se knows...) H. Peter Anvin +++ A Strange Stranger +++ N9ITP/SM4TKN +++ INTERNET: hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu FIDONET: 1:115/989.4 BITNET: HPA@NUACC RBBSNET: 8:970/101.4
hardarso@cs.unc.edu (Kari Hardarson) (01/13/91)
The Icelandic PTT also uses the big four-prong plugs. (Big enough for supplying electricity to a stove !). The 2nd pair is used to forward the connection to another outlet. If an outlet is used, an internal switch cuts the forward link and prevents other phones down the line from being used. The switch is mechanical, i.e. when a phone is plugged into the outlet, the switch opens. I guess they do it to prevent the telephone line from being overloaded by too many telephones. Doesn't make much sense these days, I should think, since the newer telephones don't draw as much current as the older ones did. Kari Hardarson 217 Jackson Circle Chapel Hill, NC 27514
dave@westmark.westmark.com (Dave Levenson) (01/13/91)
In article <16015@accuvax.nwu.edu>, hpa@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Peter Anvin) writes: > Also, in Sweden the indoor wiring is serial, not parallel, meaning > that if you lift the handset on one phone, you disconnect all phones > with lower priority, i.e. further away from the incoming line. This > looks to me like it almost has to be some form of on/off relay here? It sounds to me as though that's what the second pair is for. If the telephone sets are wired in series, then each set would require two pairs from the wall-socket: Tip and Ring in, and Tip and Ring out to the next set on the line. The switchhook in each set probably implements a 'double-pole, double-throw' arrangement. The inbound pair is connected to the outbound pair when the instrument is on-hook. When the set is off-hook, this connection is broken, and the inbound pair is connected to the hybrid in the set. This is a wild guess on my part; I have never been in Sweden, and have no knowlege of the telephone system there. Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave Warren, NJ, USA AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857