michels@tramp.Colorado.EDU (MICHELS DAVID) (01/13/91)
It used to be, when answering machines were first becoming popular, that the conversation recording feature always put out a tone every few seconds. Not anymore, now many of them seem to provide silent recording. Have the laws or just ethics changed? Is recording of telephone conversations legal, or is it required to notify all participants involved before-hand? I would assume recording for 'personal use' is legal, just as it is legal to record TV shows and copy software. But that's just a hunch, anybody know the real answer or how to find out?? [Moderator's Note: State laws vary. Check yours with an attorney. The tone signal was/is a convenient way not to 'forget' to notify the other party ... but merely notice is required; not any specific kind of notice. It is adequate to announce (on the recording itself at the start of the call) that you are recording it, and record the other person's assent to what you are doing. PAT]
peterm@sumax.seattleu.edu (Peter Marshall) (01/14/91)
Re: David Michels' 1/13 post; wonder if there's intentional linkage to the recent discussion of workplace monitoring here? If so, what's the relationship, and how to readers see any interplay between these areas? However, the Moderator contradicts himself in his reply to David -- he is indeed correct that state laws vary on interception and recording, but since some of these very state laws require prior consent of one or all parties, it is not the case, therefore, that in blanket fashion "merely notice is required." Peter Marshall
forrette@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) (01/14/91)
In article <72174@bu.edu.bu.edu> you write: >It used to be, when answering machines were first becoming popular, >that the conversation recording feature always put out a tone every >few seconds. Not anymore, now many of them seem to provide silent >recording. Have the laws or just ethics changed? >Is recording of telephone conversations legal, or is it required to >notify all participants involved before-hand? I would assume recording >for 'personal use' is legal, just as it is legal to record TV shows >and copy software. But that's just a hunch, anybody know the real >answer or how to find out?? Here's what the Pacific Bell White Pages have to say about the subject: "Federal and State tariffs state that for a telephone conversation to be recorded, one of the following conditions must be met: "1. All parties being recorded must give their prior consent to being recorded; or, "2. All parties being recorded must hear a 'beep' tone approximately every 15 seconds. "Exemptions to these provisions apply to commercial broadcasting purposes when the person being recorded has been informed." The two rules seem very common-sense to me. I have on several occasions recorded conversations between my and merchants when there has been a dispute or I expect there to be one. In particular, calls to the Business Office for local service changes to my phones get recorded. Since my service orders tend to be more complicated than most that the Residence office deals with, they have the tendency to be messed up. This way, I can establish without question just who's mistake it was. By the way, I use my Panasonic KT-T1427 answering machine to record. It generates the fifteen second tone automatically. A couple of times I've had people ask me "what kind of phone are you calling from?" When I mention that the tone indicates that the call is being recorded, the person on the other end without exception has been surprised and didn't know what the tone meant. I tell them that it is being done for my protection so that I can establish without question exactly what I have requested. For the people that don't say anything, I don't know if they are aware of what it means, or just ignore it. Once I had a rep deny permission after I explained the purpose of the tone. I then turned off the recorder. This was about ten minutes into the conversation, so I asked her why she didn't speak up at the beginning. She said that she had "no way of knowing what the tone was for." I didn't go into it further, but are there really that many people that don't know what a tone at regular intervals during a telephone calls means? I explained that I had met my obligation under the tariff to provide notice, but seemed to be beside the point. Note that mostly, it is not worth my while to record. Only when a mistake in the order, such as a change in long distance carriers, will cost me a lot in terms of money or hassle to correct do I find it worth the effoct. Steve Forrette, forrette@cpry.berkeley.edu
ndallen@contact.uucp (Nigel Allen) (01/17/91)
Steve Forrette, forrette@cpry.berkeley.edu, talks about a beep at fifteen-second intervals. I remember hearing this on phoned-in radio news reports years ago (despite the California exemption for broadcasters), but the only time I've heard a tone line that recently was a year or so ago when I was interviewing a public relations person for Alberta Government Telephones. Presumably he was taping the conversation (and all other telephone interviews he did) so that he would be in a better position to complain if he felt that he was misquoted. Nigel Allen ndallen@contact.uucp
herbison@ultra.enet.dec.com (B.J. 17-Jan-1991 1000) (01/17/91)
In Volume 11 Issue 43, Rob Knauerhase asked: > [Side question: does anyone know how such a recording system might > work? Loop tape of a certain length, I'd assume...] Your question was in respect to the Ohio State Highway Patrol. I don't know what they do, but I do know how one large financial firm operated. A couple of years ago I had a problem (since resolved) with my account at a large financial institution. The problem was compounded when a service representative lied to me about the state of my account. Fortunately, the institution recorded all calls so the lie was recorded. In the process of clearing things up, I asked a few questions about the recording process. The person who lied to me was part of an office that handled up to sixty simultaneous conversations with customers. I was told they had a machine that recorded all conversations on a sixty track tape. The tape was changed every twelve hours. They kept the tapes for six months so they could be reviewed if a problem arose. They also kept records of which representatives were talking on which track at which times. If you could give the approximate time of a call and the name of the representative, they could search for the call fairly easily. They now give out confirmation numbers, and I assume those numbers contain a direct or indirect key for accessing the conversation in their tape library. B.J.
Michel_Denber.WBST147@xerox.com (01/18/91)
"[Side question: does anyone know how such a recording system might work? Loop tape of a certain length, I'd assume...]" I had occasion to stop by our local (Brighton, N.Y.) police HQ last year. In the office in plain view on a table was a large 1/4" reel-to-reel tape deck with 10" reels turning at what looked like 1 7/8 ips (the standard "slow" speed for reel-to-reel). It was recording both phone conversations and police radio. It also had a digital clock on it that looked like it was counting in SMPTE time codes, so I would guess it records time data as well as voice. I didn't ask how long they kept the tapes. Michel
knauer@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Knauerhase) (01/21/91)
In article <16076@accuvax.nwu.edu> forrette@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) writes: >"Federal and State tariffs state that for a telephone conversation to >be recorded, one of the following conditions must be met: >"2. All parties being recorded must hear a 'beep' tone approximately every >15 seconds. Just FYI, apparently the Ohio State Highway Patrol records all incoming calls, and uses only the 15-second beep. My mother, who has called them several times to check interstate highway conditions, was annoyed enough by the beep (present even when they put her on hold) to ask about it. I don't know many people who read the front of the White Pages (_Telecom_ readers excepted :), but I can't offhand think of any better way to inform the general public of the significance of the fifteen-second beep. [Side question: does anyone know how such a recording system might work? Loop tape of a certain length, I'd assume...] Rob Knauerhase, knauer@cs.uiuc.edu University of Illinois, Department of Computer Science