cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) (01/17/91)
My parents have a pushbutton phone which is set up for pulse dialing; if you try to "dial" a number with the switch set to touch-tone instead of pulse, the pushbutton tones sound but the dial tone is not broken (apparently what happens in your occasional cases). But if touch-tone input is needed after dialing the original number (such as punching in phone calling card number or credit card number), you can do that after you have changed the switch from pulse to touch-tone (don't forget to set it back to pulse when you are done). Obviously, my parents do not have a touch-tone line.
SINGER@ibm.com (David Singer) (01/22/91)
Once in a while (maybe one call out of ten), pressing the keypad on my phone (or sending DTMF from my modem) won't break the dialtone. If I hang up and retry, it will almost always work. This happens on both my lines, using various instruments. I called telco (well, GTE); they "tested my lines" (dumping a modem session in the process) and said they found nothing, but the problem continues. Can anyone suggest some magic words to whisper in GTE's ear to point them in the right direction? (And yes, I am paying for Touch-Tone service on both lines; one of the techs I spoke with yesterday said that "everyone now gets Touch-Tone", I guess in preparation for the February 1 billing change.) [Moderator's Note: In former times, telco had no easy way to prevent the use of touch tone phones on lines which were being paid for at rotary dial rates. Consequently many people used touch tone service without paying for it. If you got the polarity wrong, the touch tones would not sound. If you got it right they would sound and the buttons would work correctly. One of the improvements in telephony in recent years is the ability of telco to deny tone service to people not paying for it. Yes, you can make the tones sound, but no, they will not cut the dial tone if you are not paying for it. Since your problem is not one of being unable at any time to tone dial (i.e. no general denial of tone service because you are not listed as having it) but only an occassional failure, it is probably because the CO is now and then sending you the 'wrong' dial tone. Try to explain to the Repair Bureau that on occassion you 'cannot cut the dial tone' and ask if they are from time to time sending you a dial tone intended for rotary users. Make sure they do show both your lines being billed for touch-tone service also. PAT]
jon_sree@world.std.com (Jon Sreekanth) (01/22/91)
In article <16253@accuvax.nwu.edu> TELECOM Moderater noted: > would work correctly. One of the improvements in telephony in recent > years is the ability of telco to deny tone service to people not .... > only an occassional failure, it is probably because the CO is now and > then sending you the 'wrong' dial tone. Try to explain to the Repair > Bureau that on occassion you 'cannot cut the dial tone' and ask if > they are from time to time sending you a dial tone intended for rotary I'm not looking for 'dangerous hacker information', but are you saying that the dial tone contains some encoded information ? That is, other than the 350 - 440Hz pair, are there some other signals, or frequencies out there in the dial tone? (I ask because my designs use standard assumptions to detect on/off hook, dial tone, ringing, CPC, etc.) Thanks, Jon Sreekanth Assabet Valley Microsystems Fax and PC products 346 Lincoln St #722, Marlboro, MA 01752 508-562-0722 jon_sree@world.std.com [Moderator's Note: My phraseology was not the best in that message. I'll let Dave Levenson clarify it in the next message. PAT]
kabra437@pallas.athenanet.com (Ken Abrams) (01/23/91)
In article <16253@accuvax.nwu.edu> SINGER@ibm.com (David Singer) writes: >Once in a while (maybe one call out of ten), pressing the keypad on my >phone (or sending DTMF from my modem) won't break the dialtone. If I >hang up and retry, it will almost always work. This happens on both >my lines, using various instruments. >I called telco (well, GTE); they "tested my lines" (dumping a modem >session in the process) and said they found nothing, but the problem >continues. Can anyone suggest some magic words to whisper in GTE's >ear to point them in the right direction? You provide a fairly complete picture of the symptoms. It is HIGHLY likely that GTE has a defective DTMF receiver in your CO. They are probably getting a few other similar complaints but haven't seen a pattern yet. I would suggest that they have a reversed link in the switch but most modems don't depend on the line polarity to make the tones. This kind of a problem is difficult to find but not impossible. It takes a little time for them to test all the receivers but usually takes longer to convince them that they need to do it! All of the above only applies if your CO is of the analog variety. If it is a digital switch, all bets are off. Ken Abrams uunet!pallas!kabra437 Illinois Bell kabra437@athenanet.com Springfield (voice) 217-753-7965
SINGER@ibm.com (David Singer) (01/23/91)
In article <16311@accuvax.nwu.edu> pallas!kabra437@uunet.uu.net (Ken Abrams) writes: >You provide a fairly complete picture of the symptoms. It is HIGHLY >likely that GTE has a defective DTMF receiver in your CO. They are >probably getting a few other similar complaints but haven't seen a >pattern yet. I would suggest that they have a reversed link in the >switch but most modems don't depend on the line polarity to make the >tones. This kind of a problem is difficult to find but not >impossible. It takes a little time for them to test all the receivers >but usually takes longer to convince them that they need to do it! >All of the above only applies if your CO is of the analog variety. If >it is a digital switch, all bets are off. I just called GTE and they confirmed that I'm on a digital CO (GTD-5). (I'm actually impressed -- the Business Office got me that information without asking why I needed to know!) I should have mentioned in my first posting that my equipment always generates tones when I push the buttons (or ask the modem to dial), and that they sound good to my ears. David Singer -- Internet: singer@ibm.com BITNET: SINGER at ALMADEN Voice: (408) 927-2509 Fax: (408) 927-4073 (amusing disclaimer du jour goes here)
dave@westmark.westmark.com (Dave Levenson) (01/23/91)
In article <16253@accuvax.nwu.edu>, SINGER@ibm.com (David Singer) writes: > Once in a while (maybe one call out of ten), pressing the keypad on my > phone (or sending DTMF from my modem) won't break the dialtone. If I > hang up and retry, it will almost always work. This happens on both > my lines, using various instruments. Perhaps your central office has one or two bad touch-tone receivers. When I lived in Summit, NJ, we had an old 5-crossbar central office until about 1980 or so (201-273, but now it's 908-273). We had touchtone service, bought and paid for, on both lines, but on about one call in 30 or so we'd get a dial tone which did not react to tone dialing. When I reported this to 611 repair service, they told me it was my instrument. When I mentioned it to a NJ Bell craftsperson familiar with the Summit CO, he remarked that there were 29 originating registers in the office ... and that usually one or more were out for maintenance. He thought that perhaps the class-of-service register within one of those registers had a dirty relay contact or something, which caused it to fail to latch up the fact that we had touchtone service. Dave Levenson Internet: dave@westmark.com Westmark, Inc. UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave Warren, NJ, USA AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave Voice: 908 647 0900 Fax: 908 647 6857
DREUBEN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Douglas Scott Reuben) (01/23/91)
I've had that problem on my 5XBar as well. All customers get tone, whether they pay or not. I've never known the telco to go after people or turn off tone on this exchange even if they don't pay for it. Anyhow, I normally don't have trouble dialing with Touch Tone, but once in a while, especially after I just hung up on another call, when I try to dial with tone, I can't seem to GENERATE the tones. For example, it seems like at times (maybe 5% all calls), the exchange reverses polarity, and all my old "Bell System" phones won't generate a tone. If, however, I pick up a Panasonic phone (at the same time), the Panasonic has no trouble generating the tone, and the exchange responds by breaking the dial tone. I'm not sure if this was the nature of the problem that was posted. It may have been that the phone COULD generate tones, but that the exchange just didn't respond, which would not be the same thing as the problem that I have described. Doug dreuben@eagle.wesleyan.edu // dreuben@wesleyan.bitnet
joe%icjapan.UUCP@nosc.mil (Joe Talbot) (01/29/91)
This is a really annoying one to get repaired! First, GTE ALWAYS "clears" trouble reports quickly. The company's performance is based on trouble reports being "cleared", NOT necessarily solving the problem reported. Often people will just give up. When you report a problem, you'll find that it is almost always "cleared" within and hour, and WITHOUT anybody calling you back to tell you about it. Intermittant problems such as bad trunks, bad DTMF receivers and switch bugs are almost impossible to get fixed unless you are persistant and somtimes nasty. Always keep a log of who you spoke with, at what number and when. Always let the GTE person you are speaking with (usually a clerk with no telcom knowledge or interest and NO power to get anything done) know that you are keeping a log and that if this problem isn't solved, it WILL come back to haunt THEM. I hate to sound so down on them, but GTE runs its telephone operations like a water or gas utility, or a governament bureau. To them, you're just a number. Joe Talbot Voice Mail 011-813-222-8429 [Moderator's Note: About twenty years ago I had a case where many calls I made in the middle of the night were getting hung up in some bad equipment in the Chicago-Hyde Park CO. No one in repair wanted to listen to me. One night I got the troubled equipment so I kept it on hold on my first line and called Night Plant on my second line and asked him to go in the frames and find me; in doing so he'd find the pathology and either fix it or busy it out. He went in and found it. The next day the foreman called me and thanked me, saying "I've been looking for that booger for a couple days now!" :) PAT]