8156BOYDK@vmsf.csd.mu.edu (Kevin Boyd) (02/20/91)
TELECOM Moderator wrote: >to it from a BT central office. In that CO they see the connection is >to an overseas circuit identified by a number. A call to AT&T in White >Plains, NY will get someone there to find that overseas circuit and >see that it is linked elsewhere. Yes, telcos cooperate with each other >on traces when required, when the call being audited or traced goes >from one telco to another enroute to its final destination. PAT] Pat makes it seem like an international trace is relatively simple, but that is not the impression I received from reading Cliff Stoll's book _The Cuckoo's Egg_. In that case, it was a call being traced from the US into West German. The West German Bundepost would not release the trace information without an official request from the US Legal Attache in Germany. I suspect the UK trace also required prior diplomatic approval and coordination. (BTW, after the book was mentioned several weeks ago in regard to secure telephones, I picked it up and read it. I highly reccommend it for all readers of this list. It deals with the Internet, call tracing, computer security and is a fascinating, true story.) Regards, Kevin Boyd | BITNET 8156boydk@MUCSD.BITNET Marquette University | INTERNET 8156boydk@VMSF.CSD.MU.EDU Milwaukee, WI, U.S.A. | Phone (414)223-4873 Broadcasting and Electronic Media & | FAX (414)288-3300 Computer Services Division | "All views expressed are my own..." [Moderator's Note: Any additional difficulties or delays encountered in an international trace are purely from the reasons you give if the telcos do not have an advance agreement. On domestic traces, the agreements seem to be in place. Even the big three competitors, AT&T, Sprint and MCI work together in matters 'of common concern' -- fraud being one such concern shared by all. PAT]
floyd@ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) (02/20/91)
In article <telecom11.135.6@eecs.nwu.edu> 8156BOYDK@vmsf.csd.mu.edu (Kevin Boyd) writes: >TELECOM Moderator wrote: >>to it from a BT central office. In that CO they see the connection is >>to an overseas circuit identified by a number. A call to AT&T in White >>Plains, NY will get someone there to find that overseas circuit and [...] >Pat makes it seem like an international trace is relatively simple, >but that is not the impression I received from reading Cliff Stoll's >book _The Cuckoo's Egg_. In that case, it was a call being traced >from the US into West German. The West German Bundepost would not >release the trace information without an official request from the US >Legal Attache in Germany. I suspect the UK trace also required prior >diplomatic approval and coordination. Physically tracing a call is one thing, getting the information is another. Either of the two may be easy or hard. >(BTW, after the book was mentioned several weeks ago in regard to >secure telephones, I picked it up and read it. I highly reccommend it >for all readers of this list. It deals with the Internet, call >tracing, computer security and is a fascinating, true story.) [...] >[Moderator's Note: Any additional difficulties or delays encountered >in an international trace are purely from the reasons you give if the >telcos do not have an advance agreement. On domestic traces, the >agreements seem to be in place. Even the big three competitors, AT&T, >Sprint and MCI work together in matters 'of common concern' -- fraud >being one such concern shared by all. PAT] It has been awhile since I read the book, but didn't they also have a physical problem with doing the trace due to it going into some old mechanical switch? Tracing a call through some of the old mechanical switchers was time consuming and difficult. On the other hand it takes a few seconds to trace a call through a modern digital switch, and a new hire with two hours on the job can do it. Cliff Stoll's book really facinates telephone types. I took my copy to work and haven't seen it since. The guys who have read it got a big kick out the fact that they understand the parts that Stoll said were a mystery (the telephone stuff). They don't have the slightest idea what all that computer and network stuff means, but call tracing and testboard chit-chat, even though only briefly mentioned, made it interesting. Floyd L. Davidson | floyd@ims.alaska.edu | Alascom, Inc. pays me Salcha, AK 99714 | Univ. of Alaska | but not for opinions. [Moderator's Note: Now there you raise a good point involving the old mechanical offices; the steppers and #5 crossbar, etc. Yes, a technician not previously alerted to a trace underway -- with some beginning clues where to start looking, etc -- could easily spend an hour for a successful trace. When a request was made to start a trace, someone had to go in the frames and look and look and look and look until they found it. And when they found it? Maybe it turned out to be coming from another central office someplace, so the foreman in the first office would call the foreman in the other office and he would send someone in the frames at that office to look and look and look and look. And just about the time they *almost* found where the call was coming from, there would be that sickening noise ... a sort of crash/bang sound as the call disconnected and the switch returned to it's normal position -- before someone could get up to it to examine it's position. And the guys would look at each other and say, "We lost 'er this time." In those days, an obscene or harrassing caller could do his thing with virtual impunity. If the person receiving the call said 'I am going to have this call traced' the caller -- if he knew how the system worked, although many did not -- would say 'go ahead and trace the call; that gives me another 45 minutes to talk to you, and when I hang up, the trace is lost anyway.' PAT]