rborow@bcm1a09.attmail.com (02/19/91)
With everyone writing about projects on your telephone line, I had a
related question. It concerns the Network Interface Devices installed
by Illinois Bell. In my last phone bill, IBT explained how you can now
test your own phone lines to see if a problem you were experiencing is
in the phone itself or in the line. Apparently, according to the
geniuses at IBT, all you need to do is pop open the NID box -- located
on the back of your house about five feet off the ground -- with a
screwdriver or something, pull out a wire, and insert your phone's
modular plug. If you can make or receive a call through this point,
then the problem lies with your nonworking phone. If you cannot make
or receive a call, then the problem probably lies with Bell's network.
My worry is simple: with these NID's located so conveniently for
anyone to use, shouldn't I (or anyone else with these NID's) be
concerned with the probability of fraud? Obviously, it would take a
bit of knowledge to do it, but consider this: Illinois Bell explained
just this to all their customers in the January issue of {Telebriefs},
IBT's monthly "newsletter".
Randy Borow Rolling Meadows, IL.
[Moderator's Note: Woulddn't you find it a bit suspicious to see some
stranger in your back yard fooling around with the phone wires? There
was an assumption made in the {Telebriefs} item that people would not
in all likelyhood be trespassing on the property of others, and that
they would be treated like the burglars they are if they got caught.
You can also keep the NID locked or otherwise difficult to get into if
you want. A far more likely scenario in an older urban area like
Chicago is that when telco's own employee is on the pole trying to
find one good, working idle pair, yours gets grabbed in error. PAT]
anderson@dogie.macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) (02/20/91)
In article <telecom11.132.7@eecs.nwu.edu> rborow@bcm1a09.attmail.com writes: [about plugging your phone into the network interface to determine if a problem is the telco's network, your inside wire, or your phone instrument. The question was about the security at the NID itself, which is apparently outdoors for Illinois Bell.] Here in Madison WI the network interface is inside the building, so the security problem couldn't arise. But the last time I had a problem, the telco repair person told me that in the event of future trouble, I should take a phone known to be in good working order and plug it in there to see if it was a telco problem or an inside problem, since I have to pay for the latter, before calling telco repair. Not long after, when again having a problem, I did this, was convinved it was on their side, and I told this to the telco repair service when I called (from elsewhere, obviously). It seemed to me they appeared almost instantly to fix it. Maybe it makes a difference in the service one gets. Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
tnixon@uunet.uu.net (Toby Nixon) (02/20/91)
In article <telecom11.132.7@eecs.nwu.edu>, rborow@bcm1a09.attmail. com writes: > in the phone itself or in the line. Apparently, according to the > geniuses at IBT, all you need to do is pop open the NID box -- located > on the back of your house about five feet off the ground -- with a > screwdriver or something, pull out a wire, and insert your phone's > modular plug. If you can make or receive a call through this point, > then the problem lies with your nonworking phone. If you cannot make > or receive a call, then the problem probably lies with Bell's network. > My worry is simple: with these NID's located so conveniently for > anyone to use, shouldn't I (or anyone else with these NID's) be > concerned with the probability of fraud? In Southern Bell land (our subdivision, anyway), these boxes have latches on them on which you can place a padlock. The telephone installer who came to our house strongly recommended making use of this feature! We put on a combination padlock, like you'd use on a gym locker, so that if we ever need service we can tell the repair office the combination to the lock, which they record on the repair order, and we don't need to be there to provide a key. Toby Nixon, Principal Engineer | Voice +1-404-840-9200 Telex 151243420 Hayes Microcomputer Products Inc. | Fax +1-404-447-0178 CIS 70271,404 P.O. Box 105203 | UUCP uunet!hayes!tnixon AT&T !tnixon Atlanta, Georgia 30348 USA | Internet hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net
seanp@amix.commodore.com (Sean Petty) (02/22/91)
> In Southern Bell land (our subdivision, anyway), these boxes have > latches on them on which you can place a padlock. The telephone > installer who came to our house strongly recommended making use of > this feature! We put on a combination padlock, like you'd use on a > gym locker, so that if we ever need service we can tell the repair > office the combination to the lock, which they record on the repair > order, and we don't need to be there to provide a key. In Bell of Pennsylvania country, these boxes provide the same padlock feature, but with a helpful twist. The box has two sides. One side, marked "Customer Access" and the other marked "Telco Access ONLY". The customer side has a Phillips head screw holding it closed, and the telco side has a recessed hex nut (to prevent the old crescent wrench trick). However, to keep from having to record any combinations, or worry about not being able to get in, they design the box so that the customer side overlaps the telco side, and when the telco nut is removed the ENTIRE cover opens back. You can take your padlock off, and access your side only, but they can get into the entire thing. Pretty good idea, but then a thief need only have a nut socket to get in rather that bolt cutters and a screwdriver. Sean Petty - Somewhere in Pennsylvania
lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield) (02/22/91)
In <telecom11.139.9@eecs.nwu.edu> hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net (Toby Nixon) writes: > In article <telecom11.132.7@eecs.nwu.edu>, rborow@bcm1a09.attmail. > com writes: >> My worry is simple: with these NID's located so conveniently for >> anyone to use, shouldn't I (or anyone else with these NID's) be >> concerned with the probability of fraud? > In Southern Bell land (our subdivision, anyway), these boxes have > latches on them on which you can place a padlock. The telephone ... > this feature! We put on a combination padlock, like you'd use on a > gym locker, so that if we ever need service we can tell the repair > office the combination to the lock, which they record on the repair > order, and we don't need to be there to provide a key. The snazzy ones Keptel (nee Armiger) sells have a place for the customer padlock, and a "tamperproof" screw holding shut the telco side of things. The cute bit is that the telco-door swings away, padlocked customer-door and all along with it. (Conceptually like a little door in the middle of a big door, although that's not how it actually works.) Laird P. Broadfield UUCP: {akgua, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!lairdb INET: lairdb@crash.cts.com
FLINTON@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Fred E.J. Linton) (02/22/91)
In TELECOM Digest Volume 11, Issue 134, Message 8 of 9
[about plugging your phone into the network interface to determine if
a problem is the telco's network, your inside wire, or your phone ... ]
After the third time that squirrels ate through my pole feed, I
interposed a DPDT knife switch between the incoming line and my
premises wiring, with incoming line going to the two "common" 's,
premises wiring going to the two poles at one throw, and an RJ11 test
jack going to the two poles at the other throw.
It was then a cinch to verify (with a phone known to be good in the
test jack, and the knife switch in the "test" position) that I had no
dial tone, no battery, no nothin'; what's more, the voice at 611
Repair Service understood immediately that the problem _had_ to be
outside the demarc; and the linesman who came to undo the squirrels'
handiwork opined that he wouldn't mind at all if such a quick way to
disconnect premises wiring were to be made mandatory.
Re security: no locked housing around the knife switch -- it's within
my basement, high and dry, just a few inches from the sill through
which the copper enters the house (and the house is a single-family).
Cost: maybe 29 cents, a spare RJ11, and a spare hour for installation.
Fred <fejlinton@{att|mci}mail.COM> or <FLinton@eagle.Wesleyan.EDU>julian%bongo.UUCP@nosc.mil (Julian Macassey) (02/23/91)
In article <telecom11.139.9@eecs.nwu.edu> hayes!tnixon@uunet.uu.net (Toby Nixon) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 11, Issue 139, Message 9 of 12 > In article <telecom11.132.7@eecs.nwu.edu>, rborow@bcm1a09.attmail. > com writes: >> in the phone itself or in the line. Apparently, according to the >> geniuses at IBT, all you need to do is pop open the NID box -- located >> on the back of your house about five feet off the ground -- with a >> screwdriver or something, pull out a wire, and insert your phone's >> modular plug. If you can make or receive a call through this point, >> then the problem lies with your nonworking phone. If you cannot make >> or receive a call, then the problem probably lies with Bell's network. >> My worry is simple: with these NID's located so conveniently for >> anyone to use, shouldn't I (or anyone else with these NID's) be >> concerned with the probability of fraud? > In Southern Bell land (our subdivision, anyway), these boxes have > latches on them on which you can place a padlock. The telephone > installer who came to our house strongly recommended making use of > this feature! We put on a combination padlock, like you'd use on a > gym locker, so that if we ever need service we can tell the repair > office the combination to the lock, which they record on the repair > order, and we don't need to be there to provide a key. Ok, just in case everyone who is worried about people with telephones in their back pockets sneaking up to their NID, lets put it in perspective. Where your NID is now, there has always been a "protector" or more recently in telco speak "demarc". They are all easy to access if they are attached to an outside wall. Yes, some demarcs are in basements. So if you knew about this and had a phone with a couple of alligator clips attached, you could make calls on someone else's line. This is even better at apartment houses, because you are less likely to be challenged and there are more lines to chose from. So apart from the fact that the NID accepts an RJ-11 plug, nothing is new, nothing has changed. You didn't think it was a problem then, why should it be a problem now? And yes, you can lock your side of the NID, but upon close inspection, you will notice that the NID can be opened by the Telco using a security TORX tool (available at car parts stores). The Telco can open both sides of the NID, theirs and yours, you can only open one side - unless you have the magic tool. So lighten up. If you are really paranoid, move the NID inside. Yes, my protectors are under the house with the Black Widow spiders. But the telco put them there decades ago - back when protectors were large porcelain things and wire was brown and covered with cotton. Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo.info.com ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian N6ARE@N6YN (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495
peter@taronga.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (02/24/91)
In article <telecom11.146.2@eecs.nwu.edu>, FLINTON@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Fred E.J. Linton) writes: > outside the demarc; and the linesman who came to undo the squirrels' > handiwork opined that he wouldn't mind at all if such a quick way to > disconnect premises wiring were to be made mandatory. Many apartments in Houston have a network interface that consists of a wire coming out of the wall in a closet somewhere with an RJ11 plug on the end, going into an RJ11 socket. Just unplug the plug from the socket and you're isolated. Plug a phone in and you can test the phone company. And because it's inside there's no security problem. My current apartment doesn't have one. Pity. Why bother with a knife switch? peter@taronga.uucp.ferranti.com) [Moderator's Note: Well Peter, it really comes down to the style and age of your existing demark. In a very old building, you may not have one at all, or it may have been installed before any of us were born. Did you ever see any demarks in old buildings where the cable came in from the street and was tied down on a (let's say) 500 pair IT (or Inside Terminal)? The pairs leaving from there into the building will have little paper tags tied with strings on the old brown cloth twisted pairs with cryptic notations. In a building where I used to live there had been (long before my time) a big switchboard and the demark was right behind it, still in service although the switchboard was long gone. From a phone man long since gone on to his Reward: 'fifty pairs from Rogers cable 96 multipled to *new* building across the alley. Ed Smith, May 5, 1931'. And in the same box a tag saying 'pairs 109-114 in use by WUTCO. Do not take them. 9/1946'. Sheesh! Sometimes you are better off to isolate yours to avoid confusion later on or false complaints of problems you caused in the box for others served from the same place. PAT]
FLINTON@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Fred E.J. Linton) (03/01/91)
In article <telecom11.154.9@eecs.nwu.edu>, peter@taronga.hackercorp. com (Peter da Silva) asks: > ... RJ11 plug ... RJ11 socket ... Why bother with a knife switch? Easy -- I had the socket and a knife switch, and _didn't_ have an RJ11 plug (leastwise not one I could fit on the ancient 8 gauge solid copper wires :-) ). And I can use alligator clips or test prods on the knife switch contacts for that rare time I want to use a VOM on the line -- I don't have any test prods fine enough to slither into the contact slots on an RJ11 plug. Or, as the Moderator noted, "it really comes down to ... style". Fred E.J. Linton Wesleyan U. Math. Dept. 649 Sci. Tower Middletown, CT 06457 E-mail: <FLINTON@eagle.Wesleyan.EDU> or <fejlinton@{att|mci}mail.com> Tel.: +1 203 776 2210 (home) or +1 203 347 9411 x2249 (work)