yoram@cs.columbia.edu (Yoram Eisenstadter) (02/27/91)
In article <telecom11.159.3@eecs.nwu.edu> scott@huntsai.boeing.com writes: > arnold%audiofax.com@mathcs.emory.edu (Arnold Robbins) writes: >> The Atlanta LATA is apparently the largest free calling area in >> the world... > This is true. To give an example, when I lived in Atlanta I was able > to make local calls to places that were a good hour's drive away. The > local calling area spans several counties. Similarly, New York City's local calling area spans five counties (each borough of NYC is a separate county), and one would have to drive for an hour (on highways, in optimal traffic) to get from where I live in eastern Queens to the southern parts of Staten Island. The NYC local calling area also spans two area codes (212 and 718), and will soon span three area codes (a separate one, 917, for pagers, cell phones, data lines, etc. is coming in 1992). NYC wasn't always a single local calling area; I remember several years ago there were parts of Queens that were local to Manhattan (25 cents from a payphone) and some that were not (40 cents from a payphone). I think that the PUC mandated uniform local calling rates throughout NYC when the 212/718 split occured. Note that geographically, NYC is only a small part of the LATA that also encompasses Nassau and Suffolk counties (area code 516), Westchester, Rockland and Putnam Counties (914), and the part of Connecticut (203) that is served by NY Telephone. Y
scott@huntsai.boeing.com (Scott Hinckley) (02/28/91)
scott@huntsai.boeing.com (Scott Hinckley) writes: > This is true. To give an example, when I lived in Atlanta I was able > to make local calls to places that were a good hour's drive away. The > local calling area spans several counties. > Here in Huntsville the longest local call would take about twenty > minutes to drive to, and many places that are within a fifteen > minute's drive are long distance. > [Moderator's Note: Do you think driving in city traffic has anything > to do with it? Here in Chicago I can't go five miles in fifteen > minutes during the rush hour. PAT] Ok, let me try this in miles (as best as I can remember, I usually think of distance in terms of time :-) I could make a call from North of Roswell Georgia to some 20 miles south of Atlanta locally. I believe that is >= 50 miles. It seems like you could call 20-25+ miles in any direction from downtown Atlanta. Here in Huntsville it is about 22 miles (not straight line, but driven line. It would be more like fifteen straight) from the south end of Huntsville out to the edge of the Madison County local area. Now, from the downtown there is nothing like a 'calling radius' the local area goes some three miles in one direction, eight miles in another, and fifteen in another. Scott Hinckley Internet:scott@huntsai.boeing.com UUCP:.!uunet!uw-beaver!bcsaic!huntsai!scott (205) 461-2073 DISCLAIMER: All contained herein are my opinions, they do not represent the opinions or feelings of Boeing or its management.
johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine) (03/01/91)
In article <telecom11.164.3@eecs.nwu.edu> is written: >> The Atlanta LATA is apparently the largest free calling area in >> the world... > Similarly, New York City's local calling area spans five counties > (each borough of NYC is a separate county), ... I suspect that NYC has the largest number of phones that are a local call. There may be larger cities, but not larger cities with such a density of telephones. The only other place in the U.S. with so many phones is Los Angeles, but it has rather small local calling areas. I have heard that the geographically largest local calling area is the big island of Hawaii. Hawaiian Tel has an extremely simple rate structure: calls on the same island are free, calls to any other island are expensive (all the same rate, no matter which pair of islands), calls to the mainland are very expensive. Someone who cares could try comparing areas. A quick look in the almanac suggests that the big island is in the vicinity of 5,000 sq. mi. If water counts, I note that the entire US Virgin Islands are a single local calling area, even though a boat from St. Croix to St. Thomas takes most of the day, and the flying boat about half an hour. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl
DREUBEN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Douglas Scott Reuben) (03/03/91)
Yoram Eisenstadter of the Columbia University Department of Computer Science wrote: > NYC wasn't always a single local calling area; I remember several > years ago there were parts of Queens that were local to Manhattan (25 > cents from a payphone) and some that were not (40 cents from a > payphone). I think that the PUC mandated uniform local calling rates > throughout NYC when the 212/718 split occured. I think this only goes for non-coin phones. There are still many payphones that demand 40 cents for calls within 718/212, depending on how far they are. Little Neck to certain areas of NYC (err..I mean Manhattan) are 40 cents, (and Little Neck is in Queens, NOT Nassau/516). Calls from most of Queens to Staten Island are 40 cents, although I can't say this is still true; it was two years ago. I think calls from southern Brooklyn to Riverdale (The Bronx) may also be 40 cents. I am sure about the Little Neck to Manhattan thing, though. In June, 1989 I had to make a call from Little Neck to 212-373, and to my surprise, the payphone asked for 40 cents. (They have a recording that says "40 cents please", rather than the NYTel local automatic operator coming on and saying "Please deposit 40 cents for the next 5 minutes."). This of course may have changed, but the uniform rates became effective in August, 1988 I believe, which was about four years after the split, but BEFORE I tried a lot of this out when I went down to NYC. Interestingly, some exchanges are the SAME in both area codes. I am not referring to "choke" prefixes for radio stations (955 for 212/718/516/and maybe 914), nor to special feature numbers (950, 976, 970, 540, 550). There is a "230" exchange, and you can use that from either the 718 or 212 area codes, and you get connected to the same number. I've seen this advertised on NYC busses for some sort of shelter (maybe for the homeless? I dunno ...). I think there may be other exchanges set up this way as well. I'm not sure about how this works in other area code split cases (LA, Chicago, etc.) where cities have been split up, so I'm not sure if this is unique to NYC or not. We manage to pick up WBBM-780 Chicago quite well in Connecticut in the evening, and I always hear them give some number which works BOTH in the 312 AND 708 area, so perhaps this is the same thing? (Pat?) In any event, even though the specific number (230-xxxx) may have INITIALLY been a 40 cent call before the split, they are all 25 cents now. Also, calls to 976 numbers, which are 27 (?) cents on a residence line, are only 25 cents from any NYC (or NY Metro LATA for that matter) payphone. > Note that geographically, NYC is only a small part of the LATA that > also encompasses Nassau and Suffolk counties (area code 516), > Westchester, Rockland and Putnam Counties (914), and the part of > Connecticut (203) that is served by NY Telephone. Which means that people in these areas of CT get FREE Directory Assistance in BOTH CT and NY! (from payphones). Compare this to the Providence/Sekonk,MA area, both served by NETel, but where you can't get DA for a place across the street unles you put in 60 cents. (It is free for Massachusetts residence phones, though...) Also, some people on or near the Queens/Nassau line get free (or untimed) service to a local Nassau communities, and to all of NYC! Neat place to set up a remote-call-forward site into/out of NYC. A friend of mine who goes to NYU but lives in Manhasset does this. According to him, it saves money, and he leaves his terminal on all day. Doug dreuben@eagle.wesleyan.edu dreuben@wesleyan.bitnet [Moderator's Note: Here in Chicago the only exchanges in common are the choke (591), CNA (796), and Phone Programs (976) exchanges. You can dial seven digits on these from 312 or 708. What is offered otherwise is *remote call forwarding* for a tidy sum. You get your number in whichever area (312 or 708) you happen to be in. If you want the same number in the other area you can have it provided it is not already taken by someone else. The number is set up on the other side to simply terminate in the CO and remote-forward to your number on your side. You pay a monthly fee plus a fee for each call forwarded, of course. Some businesses like this because it is more convenient for their customers on the 'wrong side' of town :) to reach them with seven digits and no concern about which area code to dial, etc. PAT]
yoram@cs.columbia.edu (Yoram Eisenstadter) (03/04/91)
In article <telecom11.172.9@eecs.nwu.edu> Doug Reuben wrote: (I had originally written): >> NYC wasn't always a single local calling area; I remember several >> years ago there were parts of Queens that were local to Manhattan (25 >> cents from a payphone) and some that were not (40 cents from a >> payphone). > There are still many payphones that demand 40 cents for calls > within 718/212, depending on how far they are. Little Neck to > certain areas of NYC (err..I mean Manhattan) are 40 cents, (and > Little Neck is in Queens, NOT Nassau/516). OK ... I'll check this out tomorrow and report back. > Also, some people on or near the Queens/Nassau line get free (or > untimed) service to a local Nassau communities, and to all of NYC! > Neat place to set up a remote-call-forward site into/out of NYC. A > friend of mine who goes to NYU but lives in Manhasset does this. > According to him, it saves money, and he leaves his terminal on all day. This feature, which was called "border credits" by NYTEL, is being (or has already been) phased out. As an alternative, NYTEL is pushing a new program called "Econopath", which is sort of like a local version of AT&T's "Reach Out America" -- you pay a monthly fee and then get reduced rates for a specified set of non-local rate zones that you call frequently. (This is, of course, a significantly worse deal...) Actually, my CO is an interesting example of border-line effects: it is a 1A-ESS that serves two prefixes in Queens (718/343, 718/347) and two in Nassau County (516/352, 516/354). Under the new rate structure, I can call a number that is served by my own CO and be charged for a toll call! Cheers, Y
jbaltz@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Jerry B. Altzman) (03/05/91)
In article <telecom11.172.9@eecs.nwu.edu> DREUBEN@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Douglas Scott Reuben) writes: > Nassau/516). Calls from most of Queens to Staten Island are 40 cents, > although I can't say this is still true; it was two years ago. I think FYI, those going through NYC. On the coin-op devices, it's more expensive to call "longish distance" -- e.g. from one borough to a distant one. It's US$0.40 to call from the Staten Island ferry terminal in Manhattan (inside the turnstiles) to Staten Island, I believe the opposite is true, as well. On NYTEL pay phones, it's US$0.25 from anywhere in Manhattan to most points in King's and Queen's counties. It's US$0.25 to anywhere in 212, as well (Manhattan and Bronx counties). > Interestingly, some exchanges are the SAME in both area codes. I am > not referring to "choke" prefixes for radio stations (955 for > 212/718/516/and maybe 914), nor to special feature numbers (950, 976, > 970, 540, 550). There is a "230" exchange, and you can use that from > either the 718 or 212 area codes, and you get connected to the same > number. I've seen this advertised on NYC busses for some sort of > shelter (maybe for the homeless? I dunno ...). I think there may be > other exchanges set up this way as well. I'd imagine businesses can just "buy" into certain exchanges and have the numbers auto-forward one to another -- I don't believe (and haven't heard) of any special service offered. > Also, some people on or near the Queens/Nassau line get free (or > untimed) service to a local Nassau communities, and to all of NYC! > Neat place to set up a remote-call-forward site into/out of NYC. A > friend of mine who goes to NYU but lives in Manhasset does this. > According to him, it saves money, and he leaves his terminal on all > day. Those kinds of services aren't uncommon at all--Chichester, Aston, and Marcus Hook PA (as well as several others) are al local calls to most of 312, which isn't surprising, since they are all a stone's throw from the PA/DE border. Likewise, I believe some communities in Chester County, PA may be both local to 717 and 215, since they're served by some random independent telco. jerry b. altzman +1 212 854 8058 jbaltz@columbia.edu jauus@cuvmb (bitnet) NEVIS::jbaltz (HEPNET) ...!rutgers!columbia!jbaltz (bang!)
cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) (03/08/91)
> Those kinds of services aren't uncommon at all -- Chichester, Aston, and > Marcus Hook PA (as well as several others) are al local calls to most > of 312, which isn't surprising, since they are all a stone's throw > from the PA/DE border. You mean 302 (Delaware) instead of 312 (Chicago). All PA points (this is in 215) along the Delaware border have local service across it; the DE points affected are Holly Oak, Wilmington, Newport, Hockessin, and Newark, with the rest of DE being long distance. > Likewise, I believe some communities in Chester County, PA may be both > local to 717 and 215, since they're served by some random independent > telco. I know of local service between Oxford (215-932) and Kirkwood (717-529), and between Atglen (215-593) and Gap (717-442), but I think these points in 215 are served by Bell of Pa. Other local service I know of between 215 and 717 is between Lehighton (215-377, not in Chester County) and Jim Thorpe (717-325).