[comp.dcom.telecom] Calling an Out-of-Area 800 Number

wallace@hpdtldw.ctgsc.hp.com (David E. Wallace) (03/03/91)

Is there any way to place a call to a limited-area 800 number from out
of that area at my own expense?  I have had two occasions when I
needed to call such a number and was unable to do so.  The operators I
spoke to were not particularly helpful.  On one occasion, I was able
to call someone who lived in the area in question and have her make
the call for me, but this is not a general solution.  Does anyone have
a better idea for future use?


Dave W.		(david_wallace@hpdtl.ctgsc.hp.com)


[Moderator's Note: There is no legal (that is, per tariff authority)
way to do it. The people with limited service 800 numbers quite
frankly *do not want or appreciate* your call on their 800 line; that
is why they have it specifically limited.  What you are free to do is
look up their regular number and call them on that instead.   PAT]

wallace@hpdtldw.ctgsc.hp.com (David E. Wallace) (03/10/91)

In response to my request about calling a limited service 800 number,
the Moderator replied:

> [Moderator's Note: There is no legal (that is, per tariff authority)
> way to do it. The people with limited service 800 numbers quite
> frankly *do not want or appreciate* your call on their 800 line; that
> is why they have it specifically limited.  What you are free to do is
> look up their regular number and call them on that instead.   PAT]

Sigh.  I was afraid of that.  This is a perfectly reasonable thing to
do if the business in question *has* a regular number listed.  In both
of the cases in question, my first move was to call XXX-555-1212 and
ask for the regular number.  The only number listed was the 800
number, which I couldn't call, being out of the area.

Granted, both occasions were slightly unusual.  The first case was
when I wanted to call the NY State Income Tax folks with an urgent tax
question shortly before April 15th.  They had provided an 800
tax-information number that apparently only covered NY State (and
perhaps adjacent areas).  It didn't seem to have occurred to them that
one might be a NY resident in 1981 but a California resident in 1982,
when I was actually filing.  It's been long enough ago that I don't
remember all the details, but I do remember it being a major hassle.
Perhaps things have improved since then.

The second occasion was more recent, when I was sending several
packages from NY to my home in Hayward, CA via UPS.  I needed to know
some details about how the delivery would be made.  The NY UPS office
told me I would have to call the Oakland, CA office to find out.  The
only number I could get from information was 800-222-8333, which
didn't work from NY.  I have just verified with information that this
is the only number they have listed.

Note: after writing the above, I re-checked the Oakland phone book and
found that there *is* a regular number listed there, under a separate
heading.  UNITED PARCEL SERVICE has the 800 number above, United
Parcel Service (at the same address) is listed as 415-568-0200.  It
appears that this may be a Directory Assistance problem with the
listing.  Nevertheless, calling from NY without a Oakland directory at
hand, it certainly looked like an "impossible 800 number" problem.

I invite the Moderator, and anyone else who is sufficiently motivated,
to call 415-555-1212 and see if you can get the regular number from
them.  While I hesitate to suggest that hundreds of people also call
UPS to verify that the 800 number is in fact not valid in their area,
the Moderator, at least, might wish to do so.  (Now that I suspect the
nature of the problem, I will probably let UPS know that their
directory listing is screwed up, but I'll wait a few days so that
others can verify the problem.  It's been screwed up for over a year
now, a few more days won't hurt much.)

In both of these cases, I had a legitimate business reason to call the
number in question.  I doubt very much if the people at either number
would have minded my call just because I was physically outside the
area they had anticipated when they set up the number.  They may not
have wanted to *pay* for the call, but that is a different question.
In both cases, I would have been willing (not happy, just willing) to
pay operator-assisted rates if I could have just completed the call.
In the tax case, I would have been willing to pay person-to-person
rates if that would have helped.  In both cases, I spent more than an
hour of my time (much more in the tax case) on a problem that could
have been resolved with a five-minute phone call to the number in
question.

I suspect that many limited service 800 numbers are restricted by the
owner's willingness to pay, not willingness to talk.  Given this, the
lack of a viable work-around is a bug, not a feature.  I had hoped for
a better answer, but it seems for now that if all I've got is an
out-of-area 800 number, I am S.O.L.


Dave W.		(david_wallace@hpdtl.ctgsc.hp.com)


[Moderator's Note: A call to 800-222-8333 from 312-743 just now
produced the following response, quoted verbatim: "The telephone
number you dialed has been changed. Please call your local directory
assistance operator for the correct number."  The 'local directory
assistance operator' (i.e. 411) gave me a Chicago area number for
United Parcel Service.  A call to 415-555-1212 produced the 800 number
noted above. They insisted no other number was listed in *Oakland*. A
supervisor then took my call and searched further to find the San
Fransisco number 415-952-5200, but nothing in Oakland. A call to
800-555-1212 produced the response 'there is nothing listed for that
company'. I persisted -- and she insisted -- there is no 800 number
listed for United Parcel Service.  Some companies should get their act
together on their phone listings!  Another interesting note is that
quite a few numbers in the 800-222 series are used by AT&T for their
customer service and related functions.  PAT]

CER2520@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Curtis E. Reid) (03/11/91)

In TELECOM Digest v11 n194, David E. Wallace writes:

> Note: after writing the above, I re-checked the Oakland phone book and
> found that there *is* a regular number lsited there, under a separate
> heading.  UNITED PARCEL SERVICE has the 800 number above, United
> Parcel Service (at the same address) is listed as 415-568-0200.  It

Sigh.  UPS has played trick on you again.  They did that with me some
years back.  UPS has been very *careful* not to give out the local
phone number of the station and makes sure that all numbers goes to a
regional customer service center whether it's convenient for you or
not.

For example, there is a UPS station about five miles from where I
live.  I *cannot* call them directly; I must call on their 800 number
which routes to a Buffalo customer service center that serves the
Western New York State.

I pleaded and cajouled with UPS to obtain the local number; they
refused.  In fact, when I finally got their local number, about 1.5
years later, they changed all their numbers and I had to go through
this route again.  Now, I have their new local number and I *refuse*
to give it out.  :-) :-)

Anyway, their reasoning is that why should the local station have to
field your calls when they have a customer service center?  Makes
sense yes, but UPS still has not utilized its MIS technology so there
is a two or three day delay in communicating my requests to the
station.

Federal Express is a shining example of utilizing its MIS technology.
In fact, when I called their 800 number to tell them I needed to talk
to the local station here, they told me no problem -- they'd be happy
to transfer my call directly to them (on their 800 line).  Fed Exp
took care of what needed to be done.


		Curtis E. Reid
		CER2520@RITVAX.Bitnet                 (Bitnet)
		CER2520@RITVAX.isc.rit.edu            (Internet)

ch@dce.ie (Charles Bryant) (03/16/91)

It's a bit late now for such a major change, but it seems to me that
one solution would be to make 1-800 a prefix to a normal number. If
you leave off the 1-800 you get through to the same line but the
caller is charged. That would also allow callers from outside the US
to get through. I assume it is not possible to dial a free number
outside of one's own country.

BTW Ireland also uses 1-800 to introduce free calls, but this is
relatively recent. The previous procedure was to call 10 and ask for
`Freefone FooBar'. Note that 10 is just the normal operator number.

And while I'm here, I dislike the +353 1 XXXXXX notation for my phone
number. It should be possible to put in optional spaces for
legibility: +353-1-XXX XXX and they should not be the same as the
character separating the area code from the country code and local
number to avoid confusion and to allow for two-level area codes or
some such thing.


Charles Bryant (ch@dce.ie)

wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (03/19/91)

Knowledgable sources in El Salvador last week told me that using
USA Direct; they can pay a $6.00 fee and get calls completed to
various 800 numbers.


wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu    
(305) 255-RTFM   pob 570-335   33257-0335