Jack.Rickard@f555.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Rickard) (04/08/91)
I've had continuing problems with both Sprint and Telecom*USA over the past year regarding multiple billing entries for busy signals. I use a modem and automated mailing software to contact other systems through Fidonet. If the modem receives a busy signal, it makes another attempt a minute or so later. On the bill, I routinely find a series of calls to the same number, spaced two minutes apart, each billed for a minute. The final call of the series of course, is several minutes in duration indicating I did finally connect. I've monitored the system and it is working perfectly. But in the course of a month I accumulate forty or fifty of these one minute billed entries at twelve cents each. I recently spoke with a gentleman from Telephone Express. He avows that this is a by-product of software switching and that their use of DMS-250 switches would eliminate these billing entries. Anyone know the straight scoop on this little problem and how I can eliminate it? Jack Rickard IDIC Fan Group Net 104 UFGate: 1:104/2@FidoNet 14249 E Kansas Pl. #203 UseNet/FidoNet Gateway for Net 104 Aurora, CO 80012 AKA: z200.n5000.f400.metronet.org (303)755-1681 (data) (303)752-9060 (voice) [Moderator's Note: You can't eliminate it by yourself. Only your long distance carrier can do so. The problem you describe is common with any telecom organization unable/unwilling to obtain 'answer supervision' from the serving local telco. The 'supervision' detirmines when a call has been answered, or if it was answered. AT&T and the Bells have it, most of the others do not. PAT]
Cristobal Pedregal-Martin <pedregal%takahe@cs.umass.edu> (04/10/91)
In Article 15305 in comp.dcom.telecom, Jack.Rickard@f555.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Rickard) writes: > I've had continuing problems with both Sprint and Telecom*USA over the > past year regarding multiple billing entries for busy signals. And our esteemed Moderator remarks: > [Moderator's Note: You can't eliminate it by yourself. Only your long > distance carrier can do so. The problem you describe is common with > any telecom organization unable/unwilling to obtain 'answer supervision' > from the serving local telco. I have noticed a similar phenomenon calling Spain this last month: I get a busy signal and soon thereafter the characteristic high-pitch short tone (forgive my ignorance of the technical terms here) which one usually hears when international calls are answered. I do a bit of international calling, and this never happened to me before; plus, I remembered seeing a sign in a German PTT cautioning customers that "calls to Spain - due to equipment in Spain - start being billed after a few seconds regardless of whether there is an answer there". I remember it distinctly (this was about two years ago) because it annoyed me :-) So I called AT&T (my LD company) and described (in my layman's terms) the phenomenon. They assured I won't be billed for these "calls". I'll keep an eye on my next bill, and report what happens. Has anyone had a similar experience? And, what are the appropriate terms here (for the synch tone, etc.)? Cristobal Pedregal Martin internet: pedregal@cs.umass.edu || phone: +1-413-549-5137 (home) postal: LGRC - COINS Dept. --- UMass/Amherst, MA 01003 --- USA
locke@tree.uucp (Alan R. Gross) (04/14/91)
Jack.Rickard@f555.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Jack Rickard) writes: > I've had continuing problems with both Sprint and Telecom*USA over > the past year regarding multiple billing entries for busy signals. I > use a modem and automated mailing software to contact other systems > through Fidonet. > I recently spoke with a gentleman from Telephone Express. He avows > that this is a by-product of software switching and that their use of > DMS-250 switches would eliminate these billing entries. Anyone know > the straight scoop on this little problem and how I can eliminate it? While it is possible, this diagnosis is very unlikely. You provide a clue as to what might be happening in your message: > If the modem receives a busy signal, it makes another attempt a > minute or so later. Hayes and Hayes compatible modems recognize busy signals and terminate the call instantly. If your modem is taking a minute, then it is not a busy signal it is getting. It is most likely getting another modem. A way to test this would be to make sure your modem's speaker is on -- you can park this in front of your dial string to make the modem stay on quietly until a true CONNECT is sent by the answering modem: ATL0 <CR>~~ Your software might use something besides the two tildes for a pause, if so, replace them with whatever is necessary for a pause. > On the bill, I routinely find a series of calls to the same number, > spaced two minutes apart, each billed for a minute. The final call of > the series of course, is several minutes in duration indicating I did > finally connect. The most likely scenario is that you are reaching the modem at the other end, and failing to achieve speed recognition or parity (IE: a 1200 baud caller just got off line with the place you are calling to -- you call once at 9600, and the answering modem steps up to 2400 baud after failing to connect at 1200. By this time, your modem has timed out, and hung up. Your modem calls again, the answering modem tries to achieve recognition at 2400, fails, steps to another speed, your modem times out, etc.) The fault is probably not with your modem, but instead with the setup at the other end. I call several boards, and mail services -- some are flakier than others. Several take multiple attempts to get a true CONNECT, even though their modem is answering, and both modems are attempting to talk. > I've monitored the system and it is working perfectly. Monitor it with modem speaker on, give us some more details of the system you are using -- modem, software, etc., as well as the systems you are calling. > [Moderator's Note: You can't eliminate it by yourself. Only your long > distance carrier can do so. The problem you describe is common with > any telecom organization unable/unwilling to obtain 'answer > supervision' from the serving local telco. The 'supervision' > detirmines when a call has been answered, or if it was answered. AT&T > and the Bells have it, most of the others do not. PAT] Sprint does use telco answer supervision. It also uses software answer supervision -- so the call must pass two tests - the LEC has to pass the answer to Sprint, and Sprint's software must detect voice or carrier for the call to be billed. In some areas the answer supervision provided by some independents (FGB areas), is quite impossible. In these areas, just software answer supervision is used. It is unlikely, though possible, that Jack's calls are terminating in one of the few remaining FGB areas. The best way for Jack to test to see if it's carrier related is to put ATT's carrier code, 10288 in his dial string -- I would wager that the one minute calls don't go away if he does this over a month. Of course, the rates will be higher, but I have found that Sprint will usually credit the difference in rates, if you let them work on the problem with you. Randall A. Gross | csusac.ecs.csus.edu!tree!locke @ the UNIX Tree BBS, Sacramento, CA | ucbvax!ucdavis!csusac!tree!locke Sprintmail: A.R.Gross | DISCLAIMER: Ego loquito