Brian Gordon <Brian.Gordon@eng.sun.com> (06/02/91)
The good news is that, as of today, 01 Jun 91, PacBell has expanded its local calling area, so I can call work, for example, without incurring toll charges. The bad news is that, without notice, the "permissive" 1-plus dialing has stopped working. The normal dialing from 408 has been, for example, just 415-336-xxxx. It was permissible, however, to dial 1-415-336-xxxx, which, I presume, will someday become the norm. As of this morning, using the "1-" form reaches a reorder tone ... Doncha' just love those guys?
Brent Chapman <brent@america.telebit.com> (06/03/91)
Brian Gordon <Brian.Gordon@eng.sun.com> writes: > The good news is that, as of today, 01 Jun 91, PacBell has expanded its > local calling area, so I can call work, for example, without incurring > toll charges. > The bad news is that, without notice, the "permissive" 1-plus dialing > has stopped working. The normal dialing from 408 has been, for > example, just 415-336-xxxx. It was permissible, however, to dial > 1-415-336-xxxx, which, I presume, will someday become the norm. As of > this morning, using the "1-" form reaches a reorder tone ... > Doncha' just love those guys? Either PacBell already corrected this problem, or else it's something isolated to your local switch or PBX. I live and work just on the 408 side of the 415/408 border, while most of my friends live and work in 415. I habitually dial "1-415-xxx-yyyy". I made several calls from 408-745 to 415 yesterday (June 1) without any problems, and I just now explicitly verified that both "1-415-xxx-yyyy" and "415-xxx-yyyy" work from my home phone (408-745). Are you sure this one is PacBell's fault? Brent Chapman Telebit Corporation Sun Network Specialist 1315 Chesapeake Terrace brent@telebit.com Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Phone: 408/745-3264 [Moderator's Note: Incidentally Brent, I *love* your company's new T-1600 modem. It is working out quite well here at Digest HQ. PAT]
Bill Woodcock <woody@ucscb.ucsc.edu> (06/03/91)
Brian.Gordon@eng.sun.com writes: > The bad news is that, without notice, the "permissive" 1-plus dialing > has stopped working. The normal dialing from 408 has been, for > example, just 415-336-xxxx. It was permissible, however, to dial > 1-415-336-xxxx, which, I presume, will someday become the norm. As of > this morning, using the "1-" form reaches a reorder tone ... > Doncha' just love those guys? Whew. Well, I just tried from my phone in Santa Cruz (408-425-XXX) to my phone in Berkeley (415-843-XXXX) and got through with the 1-plus dialing, but got the "Sorry, but you must first dial a one..." when I tried without. But then I have to dial a 1+7D to get to San Jose, too, and 1+408+7D _doesn't_ work. :-) Yeah, I just can't get enough of that great Pac*Bel logic either. Does this mean that after the 415/510 split, we'll be getting free unlimited calls to a _different area code_ if we have flat-rate service, and are calling back and forth from SF to the East Bay? Does that happen anywhere else? Bill Woodcock BMUG NetAdmin bill.woodcock.iv..woody@ucscb.ucsc.edu 2355.virginia.st..berkeley.ca.94709.1315 [Moderator's Note: Although we do not get flat-rate service, we do get untimed local calls within an eight-mile radius for about four cents each. Many subscribers have a mix of 312/708 in their local area, and I think Centel gives their Park Ridge/Des Plaines customers flat rate unlimited service into IBT's Chicago-Newcastle and Chicago-Ohare COs. Also, the far south side of Chicago (312) and the extreme northeast corner of the southern suburbs (708) get local untimed calls back and forth to each other as well as to selected places in 219; ie, Hammond/ Whiting. PAT]
John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> (06/03/91)
Brian Gordon <Brian.Gordon@eng.sun.com> writes: > The bad news is that, without notice, the "permissive" 1-plus dialing > has stopped working. This is a programming problem in your individual CO. There would be no reason to block the permissive '1' in calling long distance. A '1' is still permitted (but not required) from my 408 telephones. Bill Woodcock <woody@ucscb.ucsc.edu> writes: > Yeah, I just can't get enough of that great Pac*Bel logic either. > Does this mean that after the 415/510 split, we'll be getting free > unlimited calls to a _different area code_ if we have flat-rate > service, and are calling back and forth from SF to the East Bay? Does > that happen anywhere else? Frequently. As a matter of fact, Mountain View and Los Altos (415) are Zone 1 (local) to San Jose 2 (408). Southern Fremont (415) is local to San Jose 1 (408). In both cases, the full ten (or eleven in the case of calls from 415) digits must be dialed to complete a LOCAL call. And yes, if you have unmeasured residence service the call is free. This also is the case in many places in the Los Angeles area, and in many other places around the country, as Pat suggests. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
David E A Wilson <david@cs.uow.edu.au> (06/03/91)
> [Moderator's Note: Although we do not get flat-rate service, we do get > untimed local calls within an eight-mile radius for about four cents > each. Does this mean that the telco has the exact geographic co-ords for each phone number so that a call to one house [(abc) def 1234] is untimed but a call to another house on the same exchange but > eight miles away [(abc) def 1235] is timed? Or is it based on distances between exchanges so that if you are lucky you could be further apart as long as the two exchanges in question were within eight miles of each other? Our local calls are untimed (22c soon to be 24c) and can reach 30km to the north and south but only 5km to the east and 10km to the west (the Pacific Ocean and Illawarra Coastal Ranges get in the way) from my home. This is based on exchange districts - calls to your own district or an adjacent one are local. David Wilson Dept Comp Sci, Uni of Wollongong david@cs.uow.edu.au [Moderator's Note: They measure from one central office to another, as the crow flies. Any central offices within eight miles of the central office serving you in any direction make up your local calling area. I get a smaller area here since I am two miles west of Lake Michigan. I cannot call eight miles east! But my eight miles north gets me into Glencoe, IL. To the northwest, Skokie and Niles. West to the Chicago central offices of Kildare, Irving, Merrimac and Newcastle. South to the Chicago central offices of Lakeview, Superior, Illinois-Dearborn. Directly southeast of me is Chicago-Edgewater. 'My' CO is Rogers Park. There might be 10-11 miles between subscribers if both are at the outer edges of their own district. The plan here is fair to all. PAT]
scjones%thor@uunet.uu.net> (06/03/91)
In article <telecom11.418.4@eecs.nwu.edu>, woody@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Bill Woodcock) writes: > Does this mean that after the 415/510 split, we'll be getting free > unlimited calls to a _different area code_ if we have flat-rate > service, and are calling back and forth from SF to the East Bay? Does > that happen anywhere else? Here in Cincinnati we not only get free unlimited calls to a different area code, we get free unlimited calls to TWO different area codes in two different states! Cincinnati Bell is one of the smaller phone companies and only server the Cincinnati vacinity. Due to the location of Cincinnati, this includes pieces of southwest Ohio, northern Kentucky, and southeastern Indiana. Larry Jones, SDRC, 2000 Eastman Dr., Milford, OH 45150-2789 513-576-2070 Domain: scjones@sdrc.com Path: uunet!sdrc!scjones
Roger Fajman <RAF@cu.nih.gov> (06/04/91)
> Yeah, I just can't get enough of that great Pac*Bel logic either. > Does this mean that after the 415/510 split, we'll be getting free > unlimited calls to a _different area code_ if we have flat-rate > service, and are calling back and forth from SF to the East Bay? Does > that happen anywhere else? Here in the Washington, DC, area we have flat rate local calling among three area codes (202, 301, 703). We also have a quite large local calling area centered around DC and including much of the Maryland and Virginia suburbs. Unfortunately, it is flattened in the northwest and so does not include my home in Ashton, MD. :-( However, when the 301 area code splits, I will be able to dial local calls to three area codes from there too. Here we now have to dial the area code in front of a local call to another area code. When that went into effect, a 1 in front of the area code would not be accepted. However, I just tried a few calls and found that the 1 seems to be optional now. I also found that I could also prefix a local call in my own area code with 1 and the area code, which also did not work before. I was doing this from a Centrex line on the 301-402 exchange. It might work differently elsewhere. Roger Fajman Telephone: +1 301 402 1246 National Institutes of Health BITNET: RAF@NIHCU Bethesda, Maryland, USA Internet: RAF@CU.NIH.GOV
goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) (06/05/91)
In article <telecom11.420.9@eecs.nwu.edu>, david@cs.uow.edu.au (David E A Wilson) writes... (Actually, Pat sez:) > [Moderator's Note: They measure from one central office to another, as > the crow flies. Any central offices within eight miles of the central > office serving you in any direction make up your local calling area. In some cases they use the location of the CO, but in others, they bill to a "rate center" at a fictitious location. This is useful to the telco when "contiguous exchanges" get a lower rate than nearby non-contiguous exchanges. By splitting one CO into multiple exchanges, they reduce the local/cheap radius! New England Telephone does this a lot. Medford, Everett and Melrose MA are all exchanges, with their own billing locations, but they don't have CO's; all are served by the Malden CO (which has a lot of prefixes). Likewise, Charlestown, MA is an exchange served by the Boston-Bowdoin CO, whose other codes are in the Boston Central exchange. Dover (in 508) by the Needham CO (in 617), etc. In some other cases, a CO has different prefix codes for different localities but they're billed as one. Mattapan served by Milton and West Medford by Arlington are examples. Hence the distinction between the CO serving area (which may be part of an exchange, or more than one exchange) and exchange area itself (which is a line on a map). Confusing, eh? Fred R. Goldstein Digital Equipment Corp., Littleton MA goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com voice: +1 508 952 3274 Do you think anyone else on the planet would share my opinions, let alone a multi-billion dollar corporation?
Brian Gordon <Brian.Gordon@eng.sun.com> (06/05/91)
I just talked to my local business office about the change in the "permissive" 1+ dialing change. To my surprise, they seemed to know exactly what I was talking about. Their rule is that the leading "1" indicates a toll call. Before the widening of the local area on Saturday, the numbers of interest to me (415/336-xxxx, for example) were toll calls, and now they are not. Hence it used to be permissible to dial 1-415/336-xxxx and now it is not -- is is, in essence, rejected by the toll-call processing equipemnt. So I get cheaper calls, but have to change a lot of entries for my modem's phonebook.
Dennis Blyth <dblyth@oatseu.daytonoh.ncr.com> (06/06/91)
In Cincinnati Bell territory, one can call from a residence phone in Hamilton, Ohio (about 30 miles north of the Ohio river) to the Cincinnati International airport (CVG -- code named short for 'Covington' -- because the Cincinnati airport actually is in Northern Kentucky, about 15 miles south of the Ohio river) for the price of a local call. For residences, this is non-measured service. Admittedly only certain exchanges in Hamilton have this service, and one pays extra (less than $ 2, in my recollection), but, oh, boy, what a deal!! BTW, is this the furthest distance one can go, 'toll free' in the states. (Pls, no flames for 800 service, I'm new to the net and somewhat sensitive!)
Nick Sayer <mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us> (06/06/91)
sdrc!scjones%thor@uunet.uu.net (Larry Jones) writes: > In article <telecom11.418.4@eecs.nwu.edu>, woody@ucscb.ucsc.edu (Bill > Woodcock) writes: >> Does this mean that after the 415/510 split, we'll be getting free >> unlimited calls to a _different area code_ if we have flat-rate >> service, and are calling back and forth from SF to the East Bay? Does >> that happen anywhere else? > Here in Cincinnati we not only get free unlimited calls to a different > area code, we get free unlimited calls to TWO different area codes in > two different states! Cincinnati Bell is one of the smaller phone > companies and only server the Cincinnati vacinity. Due to the > location of Cincinnati, this includes pieces of southwest Ohio, > northern Kentucky, and southeastern Indiana. Given the post-Greene reality, would it not make a BIT of sense to reform area codes a bit? How about one simple rule: No area code could be in two LATAs? A LATA can have more than one area code, on any boundary convenient to the local BOC, but the area codes within a LATA would be unique to that LATA. Yes, this will make a mess in the short term. In the long term, however, it would become a hell of a lot easier to figure out how your call would be billed. It would also simplify new area code assignment, I would think. Nick Sayer mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us N6QQQ 209-952-5347 (Telebit)
John Higdon <john@zygot.ati.com> (06/06/91)
Dennis Blyth <dblyth@oatseu.daytonoh.ncr.com> writes: > BTW, is this the furthest distance one can go, 'toll free' in the > states. (Pls, no flames for 800 service, I'm new to the net and > somewhat sensitive!) Have you checked out the Mojave Desert area of California, various and sundry areas of Nevada, or, for that matter, the big island, Hawaii? Do these areas count as being "in the states"? Nick Sayer <mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us> writes: > Given the post-Greene reality, would it not make a BIT of sense to > reform area codes a bit? How about one simple rule: No area code could > be in two LATAs? Given that we are just about out of area codes, this would be a very bad idea (tm). In California alone no less than five new area codes would be required to fulfill your reform proposal. 1. The Chico LATA shares 916 with Sacramento. 2. Monterey shares 408 with San Francisco. 3. San Luis Obispo shares 805 with Bakersfield. 4. San Diego shares 619 with Los Angeles. 5. Stockton shares 209 with Fresno. And that is just in California. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
Dennis Blyth <dblyth@oatseu.daytonoh.ncr.com> (06/07/91)
Regarding the suggestion to re-align area codes to handle situations like Cincinnati's where the metropolitan area includes three codes in three states: There have to be many locales with this situation. What about: Louisville, Saint Louis, Minneapolis-St Paul, Omaha-Council Bluffs, Philadelphia-Camden, Washington DC-Alexandria, etc. etc. So is that a practical suggestion, given how many would be affected? Apologies for lack of knowledge of geography and area code structure :-) Pls, flames and corrections by e-mail, not this newsgroup. It is interesting that the e-mail replies to my earlier post arrived to our NCR TOWER system before the newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom did. Ain't it so, the person most involved/concerned is usually the *last* to know? :-) BTW, might there be any interest in creating a news category for marketing research, and especially high technology marketing research?? I know this is not the place for such discussion, and if enough interest develops, I'll post to the net (in another newsgroup). I'm primarily interested in marketing research for both the telecommunications and computer fields, but have interests in other industries and topics as well. One hot topic in the research field is 'customer satisfaction' research tracking. May sound mundane, but there are a lot of ways to go about it, and enough organizations do it so there might be enough interest for a network newsgroup. (Here at NCR we have a separate, company private newgroup for quality. This is nothing new, but is almost always interesting. OR, feel free to have 'private' e-mail discussions with me. Dennis.Blyth@daytonOH.NCR.COM NCR/AT&T Marketing Research NCR Europe Group PMD AT&T: 1-513-445-6580 Fax: 1-513-445-6078
"Fred R. Goldstein" <goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com> (06/07/91)
In article <telecom11.426.3@eecs.nwu.edu>, dblyth@oatseu.daytonoh. ncr.com (Dennis Blyth) writes: (Speaking of Hamilton, OH to Covington, KY, which from the description sounds like about 45 miles ...) > BTW, is this the furthest distance one can go, 'toll free' in the > states. (Pls, no flames for 800 service, I'm new to the net and > somewhat sensitive!) If it's 45 miles or so, that may not be the longest. This is another old topic ... frequently discussed here in the past. Castle Rock to Boulder CO is a local call at 58 miles. Fred R. Goldstein Digital Equipment Corp., Littleton MA goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com voice: +1 508 952 3274 Do you think anyone else on the planet would share my opinions, let alone a multi-billion dollar corporation?
john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) (06/10/91)
On Jun 6 at 1:59, I wrote: > Given that we are just about out of area codes, this would be a very > bad idea (tm). In California alone no less than five new area codes > would be required to fulfill your reform proposal. And then I gave a list of LATAs that shared area codes. Sufficient mail has come my way to indicate that I was not clear enough that I was naming LATAs, not cities. (Yes, I know that San Francisco, the city, does not share 408 with Monterey. But the San Francisco LATA shares 408 with the Monterey LATA.) Once again, I assumed too much. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o !
cmoore@brl.mil (VLD/VMB) (06/11/91)
The Newark (Delaware) exchange's calling area did NOT grow when Delaware went to county-wide calling recently (no comment intended on the southern fringe of New Castle County being in the Smyrna exchange and thus getting the Kent County calling area). The Newark exchange borders on both Pa. and Md., and has a lopsided local calling area; you are local to Claymont way up in the northeast and Middletown way down in the south, plus two exchanges in southern Chester County, Pa., but not to neighboring Elkton exchange in Maryland.