adamg@world.std.com (Adam M Gaffin) (06/06/91)
If this one has already been beaten to death, please forgive me, but... Probably nobody gets more junk fax than a newsroom, and we are getting tired of going through reams of expensive fax paper, so we're looking at replacing the machine with a computer and fax board. Our computer gurus have found some software that will turn a fax message into a PCX or TIFF file and another program that will convert THAT into ASCII, and want to write a bath file to transmit that into our main system. The problem is this has to be done for each individual fax, because the software they want to use (ReadRight is one of the programs) apparently can't be automated. Unfortunately, it all seems more complex than the average reporter or editor is willing to deal with, especially since we probably get 40-50 faxes (maybe more; I've never counted) a day. Does anybody know of any decent software for turning fax into ASCII, preferably automatically, or, at the least, through macros? Any help would be most appreciated! Thanks! Adam Gaffin Middlesex News, Framingham, Mass. adamg@world.std.com Voice: (508) 626-3968. Fred the Middlesex News Computer: (508) 872-8461
Rich Szabo <ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu> (06/10/91)
adamg@world.std.com writes: > we're looking at replacing the [fax] machine with a computer and fax > board. Our computer gurus have found some software that will turn a > fax message into a PCX or TIFF file and another program that will > convert THAT into ASCII, and want to write a batch file to transmit > that into our main system. The problem is this has to be done for > each individual fax, because the software they want to use (ReadRight > is one of the programs) apparently can't be automated. I've used Desqview from Quarterdeck to automate a stubborn program. DV runs your program(s) as a shell and will feed it any keystrokes you wish. I believe it has a complete macro language. It can multitask the programs. As an aside, I bet a lot of the faxes we all send could be just as well done thru E-Mail. Your problem would then already be solved. Rich Szabo Cleveland, Ohio USA +1 216 662 1112 internet:ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu and presenting!: rszabo@attmail.com
William Vajk <learn@piroska.uchicago.edu> (06/11/91)
In article <telecom11.413.10@eecs.nwu.edu> Claudio Nieder writes: > We are looking for a solution which can be implemented without any > costly program development etc. The best solution would be if there > already exists some product which would make the fax machine appear > to the program like a local printer, so that no change to the existing > software is necessary. Fax utilizes a specific bit mapped format, each line of dots encoded with padding "0's" as necessary. Fax also talks in several parallel 2400 baud modulated signals to achieve the 9600 throughput. As if that weren't enough, several messages are exchanged first in a Bell 103 mode (like at 300 baud, man) to establish the protocols which will be used. The new machines are backwards compatable with the old fashioned optically scanned rotary drum, seven minutes per page machines from the 1960's. And in the Bell 103 mode they also exchange names and addresses before they shift into the mode which transmits the data you really want. There was another fax related message here the other day, and I was in process of responding when the computer went bye-bye. It was a request for an easy conversion to ascii from fax. Because of the graphic nature of fax, and the fact that there is no assurance of the style and pitch of type received, one would actually have to be at the edge of some serious AI to achieve the goal requested. Anyone who has used an optical scanner and worked to convert a long document to ascii from typed sheets can attest to the difficulties of accurate conversion given only one character set to decipher. On the other hand, to convert from ascii to fax is relatively easy, but certainly not easy enough to make a fax machine into a computer peripheral. Bill Vajk
bayerr@uunet.uu.net> (06/11/91)
In telecom 11/445 William Vajk writes: > In article <telecom11.413.10@eecs.nwu.edu> Claudio Nieder writes: >> We are looking for a solution which can be implemented without any >> costly program development etc. The best solution would be if there >> already exists some product which would make the fax machine appear >> to the program like a local printer, so that no change to the existing >> software is necessary. > [stuff about the complicated fax protocol deleted] > There was another fax related message here the other day, and I was in > process of responding when the computer went bye-bye. It was a request > for an easy conversion to ascii from fax. Because of the graphic > nature of fax, and the fact that there is no assurance of the style > and pitch of type received, one would actually have to be at the edge > of some serious AI to achieve the goal requested. Anyone who has used > an optical scanner and worked to convert a long document to ascii from > typed sheets can attest to the difficulties of accurate conversion > given only one character set to decipher. Couldn't agree more. Given the looks of many faxes, humans have sometimes a hard time to figure it out, let alone computers. > On the other hand, to convert from ascii to fax is relatively easy, > but certainly not easy enough to make a fax machine into a computer > peripheral. Well, that's not quite true. There are several vendors of fax cards with associated software. These things transfer ASCII directly into fax format, and the quality of the resulting fax is much better than one printed out and scanned in. These fax cards plug into a standard PC. They are also able to receive faxes, but they only store the FAX/TIFF/whatever graphics format on disk, no conversion to ASCII provided. Setting the thing up to accept input from a serial or parallel PC port and sending it out over the fax line shouldn't be that difficult. It might be necessary to dedicate the PC to the job, though (but then again, clones are dirt cheap today, aren't they?). Ralf Bayer Motorola European Cellular Infrastructure Division .uunet!motcid!glas!bayerr Standard Disclaimers Apply.
Adam M Gaffin <adamg@world.std.com> (06/12/91)
In article <telecom11.445.9@eecs.nwu.edu> ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu writes: > As an aside, I bet a lot of the faxes we all send could be just as > well done thru E-Mail. Your problem would then already be solved. Thanks for the DesqView idea. E-mail? Sure, just use the address below :-). One correspondent suggested we get a 900 number for our fax machine -- it would either cut down on the number of junk faxes or earn us enough money to pay for all that paper! Adam Gaffin Middlesex News, Framingham, Mass. adamg@world.std.com Voice: (508) 626-3968. Fred the Middlesex News Computer: (508) 872-8461.
jeh@decwrl.dec.com (06/12/91)
In article <telecom11.445.10@eecs.nwu.edu>, learn@piroska.uchicago.edu (William Vajk) writes: > There was another fax related message here the other day, and I was in > process of responding when the computer went bye-bye. It was a request > for an easy conversion to ascii from fax. Because of the graphic > nature of fax, and the fact that there is no assurance of the style > and pitch of type received, one would actually have to be at the edge > of some serious AI to achieve the goal requested. Anyone who has used > an optical scanner and worked to convert a long document to ascii from > typed sheets can attest to the difficulties of accurate conversion > given only one character set to decipher. > On the other hand, to convert from ascii to fax is relatively easy, > but certainly not easy enough to make a fax machine into a computer > peripheral. I dunno. I've seen an add-in board for PCs that gives you the ablity to send FAXes from common sorts of PC documents, including imbedded graphics, and receive to files on disk. For hardcopy you print the files on your regular computer printer. Received faxes could be imported to PC applications as if they were scanned graphics images. Cost was only $250. The board also behaved as a 2400 bps data modem. Of course, if you want to fax somebody a copy of a piece of paper as opposed to a document within your computer, this won't help you unless you have a scanner handy. Which brings up a related problem ... if I buy a Fax, why should I also have to buy a scanner for my PC? For example, I notice that H-P is selling a "FaxJet" which sits between your compute and your LaserJet printer. This machine sells for around $1400 and handles document feeding for multiple-page transmission, unattended receive, etc., etc. In other words, one of these things plus your LJ gives you a complete high-end plain-paper fax plus a laser printer. It even has a 300 dpi mode for ultra-high-res (by fax standards), when communicating with other FaxJets. But if you think you could also use this gadget as a scanner for your PC, you're mistaken! (At least according to the manual I perused.) If you want to scan a document at 300 dpi and send it to another FaxJet for printing, you can do that, but if you want to scan a document and collect the bits locally, you have to buy a separate scanner for that! Bah. What a waste. (Of course HP will gladly sell you a ScanJet for, what, $1200 or so?) HP could have REALLY set the market on its ear with a combined fax/scanner unit. Oh well. (While we're at it, we should be able to receive faxes directly into PC graphics files too.) --- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA Chair, VMS Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VAX Systems SIG Internet: jeh@dcs.simpact.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com Uucp: ...{crash,scubed,decwrl}!simpact!cmkrnl!jeh
William Vajk <learn@tartarus.uchicago.edu> (06/14/91)
In article <telecom11.450.9@eecs.nwu.edu> Ralf Bayer writes: > In telecom 11/445 William Vajk writes: >> On the other hand, to convert from ascii to fax is relatively easy, >> but certainly not easy enough to make a fax machine into a computer >> peripheral. > Well, that's not quite true. There are several vendors of fax cards > with associated software. These things transfer ASCII directly into > fax format, [Balance deleted] What you wrote was true, but not related to the discussion at hand. A fax machine is simply not a reasonable a computer peripheral (as the parent article had requested.) The idea proposed was to make a fax machine into a printer 'without serious investment.' I simply don't see buying a fax board and software a rational response to making a fax machine double as a printer. Bill Vajk
mnc@css.itd.umich.edu (Miguel Cruz) (06/17/91)
In article <telecom11.445.10@eecs.nwu.edu>, learn@piroska.uchicago.edu (William Vajk) writes: > There was another fax related message here the other day, and I was in > process of responding when the computer went bye-bye. It was a request > for an easy conversion to ascii from fax. Because of the graphic > nature of fax, and the fact that there is no assurance of the style > and pitch of type received, one would actually have to be at the edge > of some serious AI to achieve the goal requested. Anyone who has used > an optical scanner and worked to convert a long document to ascii from > typed sheets can attest to the difficulties of accurate conversion > given only one character set to decipher. I think "edge of some serious AI" is a bit of an overstatement. With OmniPage running on a lowly Mac I can supply a TIFF of printed text in any combination of sizes and typefaces and in a minute or two I get a text file, generally with no mistakes at all. Granted, it's not so hot with handwritten text (pretty lousy, actually, but they never claimed otherwise). But with some chips optimized for the calculations used in character recognition, and software intelligent enough to give you text when it can, and graphic data otherwise, a fax-ASCII receiver isn't so far-fetched. With a few macros and a fax modem I could basically have that now.