belanger@philmtl.philips.ca (Robert Belanger) (02/23/90)
Hi,
I was looking in the "On the Road to Commercial UNIX" in the
"Executive UniForum Symposium" April 26-28, 1989 and I noticed that
A Company named Segue Software, Inc. founded by M. Peter G. Weiner
was porting "The Norton Utilities". I was wondering if anybody was
aware of the software. Is it out? It was supposed to be out by the
end of 1989. I would appreciate any lead, clue, ....
Thank you very much.
Robert Belanger
Philips Electronics Ltd.
============================================================================
Philips Electronics Ltd. Harfang des Neiges: Robert L. Belanger
600 Frederick Philips BlvD. Embleme aviaire du Pre-Development Group
St-Laurent, Quebec, CANADA Quebec
H4M 2S9 (514)-744-8200-2495 Eternity is very long!!
E-MAIL belanger@philmtl.philips.ca Especially in the end!!!
E-MAIL uunet!philmtl!belanger
============================================================================johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) (03/08/90)
In article <3555@zorba.Tynan.COM> belanger@philmtl.philips.ca (Robert Belanger) writes: > I was looking in the "On the Road to Commercial UNIX" in the >"Executive UniForum Symposium" April 26-28, 1989 and I noticed that >A Company named Segue Software, Inc. founded by M. Peter G. Weiner >was porting "The Norton Utilities". ... We are indeed porting the Norton Utilities, though reimplementing turns out to be a better word -- undeleting files under Unix is handled completely differently that it was under DOS, for example. We'll be shipping it sometime this year (he said, vaguely) initially on 386 systems, soon after on others. If anyone wants to send me a paper mail address, I'll send you an announcement when it's ready. -- John R. Levine, Segue Software, POB 349, Cambridge MA 02238, +1 617 864 9650 johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {ima|lotus|spdcc}!esegue!johnl "Now, we are all jelly doughnuts."
johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) (07/04/90)
In article <3636@zorba.Tynan.COM> sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >This would appear to be a variation of the don't really delete it for a >while type of programs. Just move the file somewhere else where a daemon can >get rid of it later at a reasonable interval. Quite true, although unlike the usual hack that replaces that mv and rm commands, we've hooked the system calls in the kernel so that undelete protection is provided to all programs without any changes to them. In case it's not clear, we do not modify any existing application program, we add a kernel driver and provide a daemon and front end programs to control the undelete system. >What they have done is to also replace the disk size (df) program to >subtract out the not quite deleted stuff so you know what you will have when >the deletions are done. We didn't change df, we hooked the system call it uses, for the same reasons. The daemon interfaces with the free space allocator, so if you start to run out of space, the daemon knows about it and deletes stuff as needed. >All in all pretty trivial concepts. Agreed, but it was a decidedly non-trivial amount of work to implement. -- John R. Levine, Segue Software, POB 349, Cambridge MA 02238, +1 617 864 9650 johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {ima|lotus|spdcc}!esegue!johnl Marlon Brando and Doris Day were born on the same day.
domo@tsa.co.uk (Dominic Dunlop) (07/14/90)
In article <3580@zorba.Tynan.COM>, jtc@van-bc.UUCP (J.T. Conklin) writes: >In article <3566@zorba.Tynan.COM> uunet!esegue.segue.boston.ma.us!johnl (John R. Levine) writes: >>We are indeed porting the Norton Utilities, though reimplementing turns out >>to be a better word -- undeleting files under Unix is handled completely >>differently that it was under DOS, for example. > >Why even try? Well, it would fill a much-needed gap... But seriously, the May 14 issue of UniNews, ``The Biweekly Newsletter for UniForum Members'' headlines the Norton Utilities for System V. It says, in part, ``Peter Weiner, founder of both InterActive Sytems and Segue Software [which did the reimplementation for UNIX] (and current president of the latter), says developers used to think UnErase wasn't possible in UNIX, because it would seem to involve changes to the UNIX kernel. ``Segue's solution, according to Mark Allen Kempe, senior member of Segue's technical staff, was to add a device driver that lets one change functions without dealing with the kernel. The process required in-depth and real-time analysis of the UNIX file system and sophisticated algorithms that would point out when to save programs [sic] and when to let them disappear. More than 700,000 lines of code had to be reworked to complete the entire suite of tools and to optimize the code for UNIX. ``The Norton Utilities for System V operates on a variety of 386- and 486-based microcomputers, including the IBM PS/2 Models 70 an 80 and Compaq's Deskpro 386. Th package requires the Interactive UNIX (386/ix) operating system, version 2.0 or higher, or AT&T's System V/386 Release 3.2. ``Interactive will jointly promote the Norton Utilities for System V along with Hewlett-Packard and Sun Microsystems. Both companies have individual agreements with Interactive to port the program to their platforms in the fourth quarter of 1990... ``Ajit S. Gill, vice president of Interactive's product division, says that a port for SCO's System V/386 will follow shortly. Ports for AIX and Ultrix are being considered.'' [Interesting to note that both these OS's have filesystem structures which differ greatly from (improve markedly on) that of vanilla system V.] Can't be bothered to copy-type any more. Post something to comp.newprod why don't you, ISC? Maybe you already did. -- Dominic Dunlop
byoder@smcnet.smc.edu (Brian Yoder) (07/14/90)
In article <3636@zorba.Tynan.COM> sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >In article <3586@zorba.Tynan.COM> uunet!ucsd.edu!ttidcb.tti.com!hollombe%sdcsvax (The Polymath) writes: >}In article <3566@zorba.Tynan.COM> uunet!esegue.segue.boston.ma.us!johnl (John R. Levine) writes: >}}... undeleting files under Unix is handled completely >}}differently that it was under DOS, for example. ... >}My understanding is file undeletion is impractical for Unix because the >}design of the file system puts newly released blocks next in line for use. >}How can you get around that? (If the answer doesn't violate trade >}secrets). >This would appear to be a variation of the don't really delete it for a >while type of programs. >Just move the file somewhere else where a daemon can get rid of it later at >a reasonable interval. >What they have done is to also replace the disk size (df) program to >subtract out the not quite deleted stuff so you know what you will have when >the deletions are done. Nope. We replaced the functions that programs like df call and return statistics with the not-quite-deleted stuff subtracted out. We didn't replace any of the unix utilities (like df, rm, etc.) with our own versions. All of the interactions are intercepted at the file system switch so that any programs you write yourself can benefit from erase protection too. Neat huh? Brian Yoder -- -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>- | Brian Yoder | answers *byoder(); | | uunet!ucla-cs!smcnet!byoder | He takes no arguments and returns the answers | -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-
cjc@ulysses.att.com (Chris Calabrese[mav]) (07/14/90)
In article <3642@zorba.Tynan.COM>, e89hse@rigel.efd.lth.se writes: > > I don't think there is any general method one can use to "undelete" files in > UNIX, but one way to get around the problem is to change mv (probably through > alias) to "mv $* /deleted/$cwd" (and some more stuff to create directories as > needed) and then deleted files in /deleted that are older than, lets say 7 > days. (I'm using thgis system and it has saved me many hours...) > > Henrik Sandell People have done stuff like this so many times it's ridiculous! There's some good stuff from MIT for this sort of thing, but the real solution is to change the symantics of the unlink() system call. Dave Korn (of Korn Shell fame) had a version of unlink that did something like test the directory the thing was being deleted from for a special sub-directory (something like .trash) into which to save the file. Then, cron jobs were used to clean out the deleted files at the end of the day. If the user didn't have permission to move the file to the trash directory or one didn't exist, the old behavior resulted. The cron job was able to work as long as the trash directories didn't have their own trash directories. Anyway, for the '386, Norton could probably do something like this, as there are only a couple of different versions of the kernel floating around for that architecture. Name: Christopher J. Calabrese Brain loaned to: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ att!ulysses!cjc cjc@ulysses.att.com Obligatory Quote: ``Anyone who would tell you that would also try and sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.''
res@ihlpb.att.com (Richard Strebendt) (07/14/90)
In article <3642@zorba.Tynan.COM>, e89hse@rigel.efd.lth.se writes: > In article <3580@zorba.Tynan.COM>, jtc@van-bc.UUCP (J.T. Conklin) writes: > >In article <3566@zorba.Tynan.COM> uunet!esegue.segue.boston.ma.us!johnl (John R. Levine) writes: > >>We are indeed porting the Norton Utilities, though reimplementing turns out > >>to be a better word -- undeleting files under Unix is handled completely > >>differently that it was under DOS, for example. > >Why even try? > I don't think there is any general method one can use to "undelete" files in > UNIX, On the AT&T 3B1 under the "User Agent" this is handled quite reasonably. Each login has a "Wastebasket" directory in the login directory. When a file is "deleted" it is moved to the Wastebasket. A cron job periodically goes around and "empties" the Wastebaskets. Until then, a file that needs to be recovered can be moved back out of the Wastebasket. This could probably be done in standard UNIX by either modifying the rm command or defining a new "delete" command that moved files and/or directories into the $HOME/Wastebasket directory. Rich Strebendt ihlpb!res