chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann) (03/18/87)
All of which brings up a question... I have recently acquired 2 PDP11/34s. Now, I am in need of some info. From what I can tell, they have been upgraded to 11/40s. Is this even possible?? All the drawings are for an 11/40. I have several RK05j HDs (well, they work :-) I have no docs at all on the OS (which I am reasonably certain is RSX ) By now I am sure you can tell that I live in the UN*X world. This brings up the next (and obvious question) Where can one get UNIX for the PDP, and what will it cost? Also, will I be able to use the RK05s or will I have to get something larger. Again an assumption: RK05s are 5Meg ????? As near as I can tell from the guts of the thing, I have some kind of floating point processor . Can some kind sole tell me how much good this is??. Thanx for ANY help Chris Schuermann a.cs.edu!chris or chris@okstate -- Chris Schuermann
normt@ihlpa.ATT.COM (N. R Tiedemann) (03/19/87)
In article <1741@a.cs.okstate.edu>, chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann) writes: > I have recently acquired 2 PDP11/34s. > Now, I am in need of some info. From what I can tell, they have > been upgraded to 11/40s. Is this even possible?? All the drawings > are for an 11/40. I have several RK05j HDs (well, they work :-) > I have no docs at all on the OS (which I am reasonably certain is RSX ) > By now I am sure you can tell that I live in the UN*X world. > the RK05s or will I have to get something larger. Again an assumption: > RK05s are 5Meg ????? > Chris Schuermann To upgrade an 11/34 to an 11/40 would be a step back in time, and would require a new backplane, cpu, memory, disk controller, possibly the power supplies could stay the same, but I doubt it. The 11/40 is a vintage PDP (ie Unibus), it has very little capability for virtual memory, only an 18 bit address bus, and the only ones that I know are still around, are in my old lab at the U of Wis. in Madison, and in the Digital Museum. The 11/34 was (about 1978) the newest and best Q-bus machine, it does support virtual memory, and will easily run a multitasking operating system (11/40 will only run RT-11 without a lot of overhauling). The RK05's are 2.5Mbyte drives, (I don't know what the j means), to run a modern version of Un*x it would take a couple of these. The RK05 and RK06 are the only drives that still support the PDP8 family. (At least that's what I can find in the DEC catalog.) So in summary, if they are 11/34's you could run a Un*x, on them. I have seen Un*x for Q-bus machines, the only problem may be distribution. If it really is an 11/40 (Unibus) you may have real problems running a "big" operating system on it. Most software that specs for UNIBUS requires an 11/70 with its expanded memory capabilities. Norm Tiedemann ihnp4!ihlpa!normt AT&T Bell Labs Naperville, IL 60566 Just because we invented Unix, doesn't mean we have to like it (RT-11 YEH!)
rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce) (03/19/87)
In article <3335@ihlpa.ATT.COM> normt@ihlpa.ATT.COM (N. R Tiedemann) made
several erroneous statements in reply to some questions Chris Shuermann
had about 11/34's:
->>
->> I have recently acquired 2 PDP11/34s.
->> Now, I am in need of some info. From what I can tell, they have
->> been upgraded to 11/40s. Is this even possible?? All the drawings
->> are for an 11/40. I have several RK05j HDs (well, they work :-)
->> I have no docs at all on the OS (which I am reasonably certain is RSX )
->> By now I am sure you can tell that I live in the UN*X world.
->> the RK05s or will I have to get something larger. Again an assumption:
->> RK05s are 5Meg ?????
->> Chris Schuermann
->
->To upgrade an 11/34 to an 11/40 would be a step back in time,
This is certainly true, the 11/40 predates the 11/34 by about 6 years, but ...
->The 11/40 is a vintage PDP (ie Unibus), it
->has very little capability for virtual memory, only an 18 bit address bus, and
->the only ones that I know are still around, are in my old lab at the U of Wis.
->in Madison, and in the Digital Museum. The 11/34 was (about 1978) the newest
->and best Q-bus machine, it does support virtual memory, and will easily run a
->multitasking operating system (11/40 will only run RT-11 without a lot of
->overhauling).
->
The PDP-11/34 is a UNIBUS machine as well, it also support 18 bit addressing,
and it has the same memeory management scheme as the 11/40 (that is, if the
11/40 even had 18 bit addressing at all, which I don't quite remember).
PDP-11/40's routinely ran DOS-11 (in the VERY early days) RT-11, RSTS/E,
RSX-11D, RSX-11M, RSX-11S and others, just like an 11/34!
->The RK05's are 2.5Mbyte drives, (I don't know what the j means), to run a
->modern version of Un*x it would take a couple of these. The RK05 and RK06
->are the only drives that still support the PDP8 family. (At least that's
->what I can find in the DEC catalog.)
->
RK05J's are 2.5 megabyte removable packs, as aooposed tt RK05F's, which are
fixed 5 megabytes that appear as two logical 2.5 megabyte drives (the major
difference is the lack of the door lock mechanism in the F's and slightly
different track seeking logic.
->So in summary, if they are 11/34's you could run a Un*x, on them. I have
->seen Un*x for Q-bus machines, the only problem may be distribution. If
->it really is an 11/40 (Unibus) you may have real problems running a "big"
->operating system on it. Most software that specs for UNIBUS requires
->an 11/70 with its expanded memory capabilities.
->
Dick Piercepdb@sei.cmu.edu (Patrick Barron) (03/20/87)
In article <3335@ihlpa.ATT.COM> normt@ihlpa.ATT.COM (N. R Tiedemann) writes: >.... >could stay the same, but I doubt it. The 11/40 is a vintage PDP (ie Unibus), it >has very little capability for virtual memory, only an 18 bit address bus, and >the only ones that I know are still around, are in my old lab at the U of Wis. >in Madison, and in the Digital Museum. The 11/34 was (about 1978) the newest >and best Q-bus machine, it does support virtual memory, and will easily run a >multitasking operating system (11/40 will only run RT-11 without a lot of >overhauling). Sorry, but the 11/34 is a Unibus machine too, and also only has an 18-bit address bus. The 11/34 doesn't outperform the 11/40 except for floating point (where it clearly wins), unless you have an 11/34C, which pretty much blows the 11/40 away (the 34C has a fast cache, the 40 doesn't have any cache). No PDP-11 supports "virtual memory" (at least not the way most of us think of it), but the 11/40 supports the same memory management that the 11/34 does. As long as you have EIS and memory management, you can run just about any operating system you want on it. I've run 2.9BSD, DEC V7m Unix, and RSX on an 11/40 with no real problems. The Q-Bus 11's are the LSI-11 (a/k/a PDP-11/03), 11/2, 11/23, 11/53, 11/73, and 11/83. --Pat.
jgy@hropus.UUCP (03/20/87)
> All of which brings up a question... > I have recently acquired 2 PDP11/34s. > Now, I am in need of some info. From what I can tell, they have > been upgraded to 11/40s. Is this even possible?? All the drawings > are for an 11/40. I have several RK05j HDs (well, they work :-) > I have no docs at all on the OS (which I am reasonably certain is RSX ) > By now I am sure you can tell that I live in the UN*X world. > This brings up the next (and obvious question) Where can one get UNIX > for the PDP, and what will it cost? Also, will I be able to use > the RK05s or will I have to get something larger. Again an assumption: > RK05s are 5Meg ????? > As near as I can tell from the guts of the thing, I have some kind > of floating point processor . Can some kind sole tell me how much good > this is??. > > Thanx for ANY help I used to run UNIX V7 (or V6+) on 11/34's with RK05's, being at a university we got it for free, maybe you can. Ask through the usual AT&T channels.
spf@clyde.UUCP (03/20/87)
In article <3335@ihlpa.ATT.COM> normt@ihlpa.ATT.COM (N. R Tiedemann) writes: >The 11/34 was (about 1978) the newest >and best Q-bus machine... Uh, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I believe the 11/34 and 11/34A are Unibus architectures. I have an 11/34 cardset and Unibus backplane at home, given to me by someone who claims they used to work, though I haven't wrapped a cabinet and power supply around them myself yet. The only documentation I have is the maintenance manual. Anyone else care to clear this up? Steve *** We are made of dreams and bones... -- Dave Mallet in "The Garden Song"
john@frog.UUCP (03/23/87)
In some article, someone answers: > In article <1741@a.cs.okstate.edu>, chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann) writes: > > I have recently acquired 2 PDP11/34s....upgraded to 11/40s. with: > > ...The 11/40 is a vintage PDP (ie Unibus), it has very little capability > for virtual memory, only an 18 bit address bus... > The 11/34 was (about 1978) the newest and best Q-bus machine, it does > support virtual memory, and will easily run a multitasking operating > > The RK05's are 2.5Mbyte drives...to run a modern version of Un*x it would > take a couple of these. > > So in summary, if they are 11/34's you could run a Un*x, on them. I have > seen Un*x for Q-bus machines, the only problem may be distribution. If In the words of Zero Mostel, "Say OOPS and get out!" (The Producers). The 11/34 is definitely a UNIBUS machine (according to my 1978/79 copy of the "pdp11/04/34/45/55/60 processor handbook", and according to the 11/34 I used at MIT), and since it is neither an /04 (oh-four) nor a /20, it has an 18-bit physical address space (and 16-bit virtual address space, like any other PDP-11). I don't remember what the /40 (forty) is, but I seem to recall that the /34 is basically a new-technology /40. UNIX runs on the /34, but it's a tight fit. Get 2.8BSD/2.9BSD if you can, it has overlays to use up memory at incredible rates :-). What the respondant may have been thinking of is the 11/04 (a new-technology /20, and thus quite crippled), and the 11/23 (such as I have at home), which is, indeed a QBUS machine that, if you have the 11/23+ and not the bare 11/23 (such as I have at home :-( ), has a 22-bit physical address space (the bare 11/23 has only 18). The RK05 is, indeed, a 2,457,600 byte cartridge. It makes a perfectly adequate backup UNIX root for mitccc's PDP-11/70 (and seems perfectly miniscule compared to our two 300Mb drives :-). -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA "Happiness is the planet Earth in your rear-view mirror." - Sam Hurt, in "Eyebeam, Therefore I Am"
linwood@ingr.UUCP (04/06/87)
We have been running HCR UNITY 3.0 on our 11/34 for several years. It is HCR's
port of Unix System III with BSD 2.9 enhancements. It seems to be a very
good OS since we have had very few problems with it. Unfortunatly, I think
HCR has discontinued the UNITY series for the PDP 11. They might still be
willing to sell a copy even though they may not support it. Before we ran
UNITY, we were running a version of XENIX (generic version 7).
In response to other chatter on the net, the PDP 11/34 is an 18 bit UNIBUS
machine. Our's is kludged though. We have a Unibus to Q-bus converter,
so we can run with Q-bus periferals (sp).
- Linwood Varney
{akgua,ihnp4}!ingr!linwood
{akgua,ihnp4}!jett!linwood (the 11/34 is jett)