ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (12/13/87)
--
I could use a little help from the net in straightening out the PDP cpu line:
Other than the difference in busses....what is the difference between the
following CPU's......??
the 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24...
the 11/44 and 11/45...
the 11/70, 11/73 and 11/84/83...
these boards *seem* to be similar cpu's with different busses...
Thanks for the help....
______________________________________________________________________________
Kenneth J. Seefried iii | Internet: ken@gatech.edu
P.O. Box 30104 | Bitnet: ccastks@gitvm1
School of Information & Computer Science| uucp:
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 | ...!{backbone site}!gatech!ken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~pdb@sei.cmu.edu (Patrick Barron) (12/14/87)
In article <16886@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) writes: >Other than the difference in busses....what is the difference between the >following CPU's......?? > >the 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24... The 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 use the exact same CPU (the F-11 chipset). The 11/23 and 11/23+ are Q-bus, while the 11/24 is Unibus. The 11/23+ has space for bootstrap ROMs, and also has serial ports (two, I believe) that the 11/23 does not have. >the 11/44 and 11/45... These are in fact quite different. They use different CPUs, and the 11/45 has a special fast memory bus which the 11/44 does not have. The 11/45 does not support the Unibus Map, which the 11/44 has. Also, the 11/45 and 11/55 are more-or-less the same machine. >the 11/70, 11/73 and 11/84/83... The 11/70 is a big, nasty Unibus machine. When I say "big and nasty", I'm not kidding. The thing needs 3-phase power to run the CPU. The 11/73 is a Q-bus CPU with 11/70-like capability, based on the J-11 chipset. It has a couple of extra instructions (like the Test-and-Set instruction). The 11/83 has a faster J-11, and a fast memory bus (the Private Memory Inter- connect, or PMI). The 11/84 is almost exactly an 11/83, except it's main I/O bus is the Unibus rather than the Q-bus. A good reference for all this stuff is "Computer Archtecture: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design", by Bell, Mudge, and McNamara. It talks about the PDP-n, where "n" is the number of any PDP DEC ever made, and also a little bit about the VAX. --Pat.
sytek@tekgen.TEK.COM (Mike Ewan) (12/15/87)
In article <16886@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) writes: >Other than the difference in busses....what is the difference between the >following CPU's......?? > I'll fill in with what I know for sure. Maybe someone else will have some more in depth knowlege. >the 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24... I'm not sure about the differences of the 23 and 23+ but if you have a choice get the 23+. The 24 is Unibus the 23's are Qbus. >the 11/44 and 11/45... The 44 has split I&D, and Unibus map. The 45 does not. >the 11/70, 11/73 and 11/84/83... The 73 is a J11 chip set replacement for the 70. In other words a 70 on a chip. Also is a Qbus. The 84 is the current product line replacement for the 70 (Unibus), the 83 is the Qbus/J11 version of the 84. Mike Ewan Tektronix Inc.
pdb@sei.cmu.edu (Patrick Barron) (12/15/87)
In article <2161@tekgen.TEK.COM> sytek@tekgen.UUCP (Mike Ewan) writes: >The 44 has split I&D, and Unibus map. The 45 does not. The 45 does, in fact, have split I&D. It is missing the Unibus map, though. --Pat.
hoffman@pitt.UUCP (Bob Hoffman) (12/23/87)
In article <3538@aw.sei.cmu.edu> pdb@sei.cmu.edu (Pat Barron) writes: > The 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24 use the exact same CPU (the F-11 chipset). The >11/23 and 11/23+ are Q-bus, while the 11/24 is Unibus. The 11/23+ has space >for bootstrap ROMs, and also has serial ports (two, I believe) that the 11/23 >does not have. The 11/24 also had enough 40 pin sockets to accept both the Floating Point and the Commercial Instruction Set. The 11/23 would accept only one of them. > ... Also, the 11/45 and 11/55 >are more-or-less the same machine. As is the 11/50. The only difference is the type of memory supplied. If I remember correctly, the 11/45 had only Unibus memory, the 11/50 had MOS FastBus memory, and the 11/55 had bipolar FastBus memory. I'm still running an 11/45 here. > The 11/70 is a big, nasty Unibus machine. When I say "big and nasty", >I'm not kidding. The thing needs 3-phase power to run the CPU. You AREN'T kidding! It takes a whole BA11-K expansion box (19x22x10.5) to hold ONE megabyte of RAM. We've still got one of them, too. ---Bob. -- Bob Hoffman, N3CVL {allegra, bellcore, cadre, idis, psuvax1}!pitt!hoffman Pitt Computer Science hoffman%pitt@relay.cs.net
cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) (01/21/88)
In article <16886@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) writes: >the 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24... same chip set, (t-11 i seem to recall) but 23+ had some outboard slu's etc unlike the 23. the 23/23+ where q-bus, the 11/24 used a similar (but NOT identical) chip set and was unibus >the 11/44 and 11/45... the 11/45 was a cache-less 11/70, old chip set. 11/44 was much newer and used the same type of dual bus (processor-memory vs unibus) as the 11/70 but only had 1 set of registers unlike the 11/70... (it also took LOTS less power) >the 11/70, 11/73 and 11/84/83... the 11/73 used the j-11 chipset which was a 1 chip 11/70.... it runs at approx 14Mhz on the q-bus with standard memory on the q-bus, the 83 and 84 use the 18Mhz j-11 with PMI memory on the c-d interconnect and in most (but not all) circumstances are the fastest 11's around ('cept those fascinating rumors of 40Mhz j-11's running in liquid nitrogen ......) -ed cetron cetron@cs.utah.edu
pechter@dasys1.UUCP (Bill Pechter) (01/25/88)
In article <5168X@utah-cs.UUCP> cetron@cs.utah.edu.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) writes: >In article <16886@gatech.edu> ken@gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) writes: >>the 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24... > same chip set, (t-11 i seem to recall) but 23+ had some outboard > slu's etc unlike the 23. the 23/23+ where q-bus, the 11/24 used > a similar (but NOT identical) chip set and was unibus > I believe the F11 chips on the 11/23 11/23+ and 11/24 were identical. >>the 11/44 and 11/45... > the 11/45 was a cache-less 11/70, old chip set. 11/44 was much newer > and used the same type of dual bus (processor-memory vs unibus) as the > 11/70 but only had 1 set of registers unlike the 11/70... > (it also took LOTS less power) The KB11-A and KB11-B were the early 11/45 and 11/70 respectively. They were very similar, having separate I and D space, but the 11/70 had 22 bit addressing and a unibus map. The floating point units were the same as well. The 11/70 was later upgraded to the KB11-C and the 11/45 was the KB11-D after equivalent ECO's were performed. I seem to remember that a major reason for the ECO's was a floating point bug found under Unix systems. The 11/70's main feature was the cache memory, integrated cache-memory to main memory to RH70 massbuss which replaced the RH11 option by integrating the RH into the CPU's backplane. The 11/45 had dual registers (I think) as well as the 11/70. The 11/45,11/50 and 11/55 were the same machine with different memory configurations. The 11/55 was a screamer using bipolar memory and core giving very fast speed. I think the 11/55 was the one with the later floating point option on it. I won't go into the ones that never hit the street. >>the 11/70, 11/73 and 11/84/83... > and in most (but not all) circumstances are the fastest 11's around >('cept those fascinating rumors of 40Mhz j-11's running in liquid nitrogen >......) How about the rumors of the parallel multi-processor j-11's in the labs at DEC and in DECUS? Bill Pechter ex-DEC Field Service -- Bill Pechter {sun!hoptoad,cmcl2!phri}!dasys1!pechter Lakewood Microsystems, 103 Governors Road, Lakewood NJ 08701 (201)370-0709 Evenings Big Electric Cat Public Access Unix, New York, NY