steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) (07/28/89)
[ This is in response to a response to my 7/11 product announcement info. The response to my response appeared on Sun-Spots. ] List prices (from the July 11 DEC system pricing catalog) for a reasonable minimalist DECstation 2100 configuration are: DECstation 2100, 15" mono display, 8MB memory, mouse, keyboard, SCSI controller, Ethernet controller, and so on (everything for a reasonable diskless system): $7950 Add 332MB disk (RZ55): $6500 Add 104MB disk (RZ23): $2400 Add TK50Z tape: $3500 Software and docs: $2004 Ultrix will not, in theory, run using the RZ23 as the system disk. What that means is that it's harder to build a standalone system on such a disk, and what you end up with, you may not like. I'd bet that the same is true for a SPARCstation 1 with 105MB disk (though maybe the shared libraries get you enough to make the difference). If I was buying a standalone system, I'd go for a 300+MB disk, no matter whether or not I was getting a SS1 or a DS2100. The 104/105MB disks are really best as paging-only devices. Also note that this is 'list' price; I'm not sure what sort of warranty that includes. So, for a DS2100 system, we have $7950+($6500|$2400)+$3500+$2004, which comes to either $19954 or $15854, depending on how close to the edge you like to run with your disk. This assumes that your software price is correct; it sounds right, but I don't know for sure. You certainly don't have to add the monitor price to the base sticker price. Let's look at a similar SPARCstation 1: SS1, 17" mono, 8MB memory, mouse, keyboard, SCSI, Ether; reasonable diskless box: $8995 Add 327MB disk: $5600 Add 104MB disk: $2000 Add tape: $1600 Add software+docs: $300+$450 We get $8995+($5600|$2000)+1600+$750. This comes to $16945 or $13345 for a full system. So, if you're only buying one, you might indeed be better off with the SPARCstation 1. (Geez, DEC charges a lot for software, and I think anyone of sound mind buys TK50s only under duress...) If you're buying this in bulk (like I am), and you drop off the tape and software/doc pricing, the cost is $14595 or $10995 for a SS1, and $14450 or $10350 for the 2100. In this case, the DEC system is cheaper (though once you factor in the warranty stuff and the monitor size difference, they're probably priced pretty identically). Depending on where you are, if you're a university, you may get substantially better discounts from DEC than from Sun. Plus, we at least have a better relationship (I feel) with DEC than we do with Sun right now. (Heck, until we get a source license executed with Sun, we won't buy the old, obsolete products, and we can't buy the new and interesting ones... and the sales rep didn't even return my call about sources!) Your mileage may vary; I know of one other university whose DEC reps (as of the last SUG conference) won't talk to them, but whose relationship with Sun is pretty solid. For most people, I think that the SPARCstation/DECstation decision is one that can go either way. They're both nice machines, after all. For both DEC and for Sun, this is a new way to be doing business. -Steve Spoken: Steve Miller Domain: steve@mimsy.umd.edu UUCP: uunet!mimsy!steve Phone: +1-301-454-1808 USPS: UMIACS, Univ. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
grunwald@flute.cs.uiuc.edu (Dirk Grunwald) (07/28/89)
Of course, you're insane to buy either a DEC or SUN disk, unless you want their maintaince. People here use CDC WREN-V's (630-ish Mb, formatted) costing about $2500 a pop. These can allegedly work with the PMAX as well, if you get the right firmware level. This makes the comparison for N systems: DEC: 3500 + 2004 + 2400 + N * (7950 + 2500) SUN: 1600 + 2000 + 750 + N * (8995 + 2500) but the savings using DEC aren't huge; less than $7000 (less discounting) for 10 stations. -- Dirk Grunwald -- Univ. of Illinois (grunwald@flute.cs.uiuc.edu)
frank@croton.DEC.COM (Frank Wortner) (07/28/89)
In article <18784@mimsy.UUCP>, steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) writes: > [ a price comparison of SPARCstation1 and DECstation 3100] > Also note that this is 'list' price; I'm not sure what sort of warranty > that includes. > FYI, DECstations carry a one year limited warranty. Frank
steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) (07/29/89)
I don't remember the way the different purchase-time warranty options work. I know that 'standard' pricing implies a one-year on-site warranty; I had thought that maybe 'list' pricing implied no warranty at all, or maybe a one-year return-to-factory warranty. Since I was quoting list pricing, I was deliberately fuzzy on the issue, as I did not want to mislead anyone if I was wrong... So what's the real scoop? -Steve Spoken: Steve Miller Domain: steve@mimsy.umd.edu UUCP: uunet!mimsy!steve Phone: +1-301-454-1808 USPS: UMIACS, Univ. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
elgie@canisius.UUCP (Bill Elgie) (07/31/89)
In article <18816@mimsy.UUCP>, steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) writes: > > I don't remember the way the different purchase-time warranty options > work. I know that 'standard' pricing implies a one-year on-site warranty; I > had thought that maybe 'list' pricing implied no warranty at all, or maybe a > one-year return-to-factory warranty..... > > So what's the real scoop? > I didn't see the original posting. But: the base DECStation 2100 is "adver- tised" to have a list price of $2100. If one gets a formal quote from DEC (I have one in front of me), the "UNIT PRICE" will be listed as $8670. Be- low, after all the model description verbiage, will be another line, called "Extended Warranty Option", together with the difference in price ($720, which is equal to 8670-7950). In DEC's Brave New World, the one-year warranty is a return-to-wherever war- ranty; one pays extra (via the EWO) for on-site service. greg pavlov (unde borrowed account), FSTRF, Amherst, NY
abstine@image.soe.clarkson.edu (Arthur Stine) (07/31/89)
From article <2414@canisius.UUCP>, by elgie@canisius.UUCP (Bill Elgie): > I didn't see the original posting. But: the base DECStation 2100 is "adver- > tised" to have a list price of $2100. If one gets a formal quote from DEC > (I have one in front of me), the "UNIT PRICE" will be listed as $8670. Be- > low, after all the model description verbiage, will be another line, called > "Extended Warranty Option", together with the difference in price ($720, > which is equal to 8670-7950). > > In DEC's Brave New World, the one-year warranty is a return-to-wherever war- > ranty; one pays extra (via the EWO) for on-site service. > > greg pavlov (unde borrowed account), FSTRF, Amherst, NY The 2100 most assuredly does not have a list price of $2100. The base price of the system (for a 15" monochrome, 8M, etc) is $7950, which gives your 1 year return to DEC warranty. The price goes up from there... art stine sr network engineer clarkson u -- Art Stine Sr Network Engineer Clarkson U
frank@croton.dec.com (Frank Wortner) (07/31/89)
In article <18784@mimsy.UUCP>, steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) writes: > > List prices (from the July 11 DEC system pricing catalog) for a reasonable > minimalist DECstation 2100 configuration are: > [...] > Also note that this is 'list' price; I'm not sure what sort of warranty > that includes. > Rather than taking a chance on getting something wrong, let me refer Steve and anyone else who needs warranty information to 1) their local sales rep --- the rep is paid to explain this sort of stuff, amoung other things ; and 2) the July 11 U.S. Systems Price List which provided the 'list' prices. Pages 8 through 26 explain (or attempt to explain) the various warranties DEC offers. Again, if you have questions, ask the sales rep. Frank frank@croton.dec.com ...!decwrl!croton.dec!frank
elgie@canisius.UUCP (Bill Elgie) (08/01/89)
In article <1989Jul31.121859.13565@sun.soe.clarkson.edu>, abstine@image.soe.clarkson.edu (Arthur Stine) writes: > From article <2414@canisius.UUCP>, by elgie@canisius.UUCP (Bill Elgie): > >I didn't see the original posting. But: the base DECStation 2100 is "adver- > >tised" to have a list price of $2100..... > > "Extended Warranty Option", together with the difference in price ($720, > > which is equal to 8670-7950). ^^^^ > > greg pavlov (unde borrowed account), FSTRF, Amherst, NY > > The 2100 most assuredly does not have a list price of $2100....... Yes.