[comp.sys.dec] Questions on 5400 systems

stevem@pserv.UUCP (Steve Mestad) (08/08/89)

I have several questions about Dec's new 5400 systems....
(Many of these have been given to the local office in the past
 with less than helpful responses)

Our sales reps state that the 5400 qbus can run 8 meg and disk io will be
about 2.5 times better than on our Microvax II's....Has anyone experienced this?
How fast do the dssi drives run....or is the kda a better way to go?

The 5400 uses the same box as the Microvax 3000 line.....These cabinets dont
use cabinet kits....How are the connections brought out?  On the edge of the
card like the Sun 3?  Just run out a hole?  Special fan out lines?
How about board interchange between the Microvax II, 3000's, 5400?
Did the card size change from the II to the 3000?  Does the 8 meg bus in
the 5400 eliminate the use of existing cards due to its faster speed?
Or do the third party 3000 series card run fine in the 5400??

How about the Risc Ultrix?  Full of porting bugs or identical to the
Vax Ultrix?  Third party applications getting ported or are they too busy
or not interested.....

I know its a large number of questions/details...but the 5400 looks like
a nice setup.....and this info will be helpful in machine selection...
Will post summary of responses if there's interest.....

For those into proper number use, substitute as follows:
Sun3-->Sun 3/260......Microvax 3000 line-->3400, 3500, 3600...

Thanks....
Steve Mestad  (email stevem%pserv@src.honeywell.com)

kennish@janus.uucp (Ken A. Nishimura) (08/08/89)

We have a 5400 in the cabinet (not floor pedestal) type
case.  I have run some i/o benchmarks against the DecStation
3100.  Preliminary results indicate that the RA90 with the
DecSystem 5400 is 4.87 times as fast as a DecStation 3100.
Now, the DecStation 3100 is about 4 times as fast as a uVAX
II/GPX with RD54 drives, or about 0.8 times as fast as a
VAX8800 with RA81 drives.  Therefore, the 5400 with RA90's
can be considered to be quite fast.

As far as porting software for the 5400 - it is 100% binary
compatible (DEC claim, yet to be disproven here) with the 3100
except for the OS (device drivers).  Hence, any DS3100 application
should run on the 5400.  As far as the OS, well, it's quite similar
to the OS for Vaxen, but there are some differences.  As we
are field testing Ultrix for both Vax and Risc both seem about
the same number of problems, although the bugs are not identical.
Overall, I must say that Ultrix 3.1 is pretty good. (please
no flames!)

As far as CPU performance of the 5400 vs. the 3100, it is about
15% faster,o the 5400 is about 17 times a uVaxII.  FP performance
is about 18% faster.

My opinion -- for CPU, the best bang for your buck is the 2100
(list prices), 3100 (university prices).  If I/O performance is
y (i.e. Ingres/Databases) then the 5400 is worth considering
since its so much faster than the 3100 for I/O.

							-ken

I usually don't post a disclaimer, but since this message contains
numerical data and opinions.......

"All data and statements made above are unofficial and strictly the
opinion of the author.  No connection with the University of
California is expressed or implied."

steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller) (08/08/89)

If you've got benchmarks for either the RA90 or the RF71 on a 5400, and
could post (or send to me directly) your results and some description of
what you did to get them, I'd be extremely grateful.  I'm trying to decide
if I'm going to get enough of a speedup to make it worth my while (and
I'm completely ignorant of RA90 and RF71 speeds).

Thanks.

	-Steve

Spoken: Steve Miller    Domain: steve@mimsy.umd.edu    UUCP: uunet!mimsy!steve
Phone: +1-301-454-1808  USPS: UMIACS, Univ. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith) (08/09/89)

In article <106@pserv.UUCP>, stevem@pserv.UUCP (Steve Mestad) writes:
> Our sales reps state that the 5400 qbus can run 8 meg and disk io will
> be about 2.5 times better than on our Microvax II's.  Has anyone
> experienced this?  How fast do the dssi drives run....or is the kda a
> better way to go?

Dssi is far better because the i/o's do not go to the q-bus.  The controller
is "built-in" to the processor card.  Naturally, the disk connects directly
to the controller.  Since the QIO's and data don't travel over the bus, its
much faster. 

> How are the connections brought out?
>
> Does the 8 meg bus in the 5400 eliminate the use of existing cards due to
> its faster speed?
>
> Or do the third party 3000 series card run fine in the 5400??

The Q-bus is still in place and available for kda50's and other dog type
controllers.  The connections are either Q-bus or the dssi slots.  dssi is
bus-less, that is, it is *not* a bus.  It is a controller on the processor
card.  Once all the dssi slots are used, thats it.  No further expansion is
possible.  I think there are typically four dssi slots.  I am not familiar
with the 5xxx series.  A limitation of dssi is that only dssi drives can be
used with it.  The Q-bus can utilize SMD, ESDI, tapes, etc. 

> How about the Risc Ultrix?  Full of porting bugs or identical to the
> Vax Ultrix?  Third party applications getting ported or are they too busy
> or not interested.....

Don't know but a good question.  If anyone knows, I'd like to hear too.

Cheers!

- randy

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