[comp.sys.dec] DEC TCP/IP

harmon@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bruce Harmon) (03/21/90)

I may be interested in making the transition from Wollongong's
TCP/IP (VMS hosted) to the new DEC product.  I also need two-way
NFS support VMS to/from a non-DEC Unix platform.  Does anyone
out there have any experience with the new DEC TCP/IP product
that he/she would like to share.

Areas of particular interest are the use of sockets, ftp, and NFS.
Performance and price relative to the Wollongong product would
be interesting.

simon@ucs.Adelaide.EDU.AU (Simon Hackett) (03/22/90)

In article <8240001@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM>, harmon@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bruce
Harmon) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I may be interested in making the transition from Wollongong's
|> TCP/IP (VMS hosted) to the new DEC product.  I also need two-way
|> NFS support VMS to/from a non-DEC Unix platform.  Does anyone
|> out there have any experience with the new DEC TCP/IP product
|> that he/she would like to share.
|> 

	You really should check out Multinet TCP/IP from TGV Inc. Its the best TCP/IP
for VMS I have ever seen. They have both client and server NFS
available, and I don't
know of any other implenetation of client NFS for vax/vms _at all_.
Certainly the DEC
product doesn't do it. Multinet also does just so much more it's amazing
(makes Wollongong
software pale in comparison).

	Try sending some mail to vance@tgv.com for more info. 


	(p.s. No business relationship to them, I'm merely a (very) satisfied
customer)

	Simon Hackett
{----------------------------------------------------------------------------}
{  Simon Hackett, Communications/Systems, University of Adelaide, Australia  }
{                    E-mail: simon@ucs.adelaide.edu.au                       }
{     Phone: (Australia) 08 228 5669       Fax: (Australia) 08 223 6245      }
{        "Unix is a registered bell of AT&T trademark laboratories."         }
{----------------------------------------------------------------------------}

evans@testmax.zk3.dec.com (Marc Evans Ultrix Q/A) (03/23/90)

In article <8240001@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM>, harmon@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bruce
Harmon) writes:
> 
> 
> I may be interested in making the transition from Wollongong's
> TCP/IP (VMS hosted) to the new DEC product.  I also need two-way
> NFS support VMS to/from a non-DEC Unix platform.  Does anyone
> out there have any experience with the new DEC TCP/IP product
> that he/she would like to share.
> 
> Areas of particular interest are the use of sockets, ftp, and NFS.
> Performance and price relative to the Wollongong product would
> be interesting.

I use the product within DEC. I have used the Wollongong product in the past.
I prefer the DEC product.

The socket implementation is what is used for providing the TCP/IP transport
for the DECwindows VMS implementation. So, You can assume that the AF_INTERNET
transport has been very well exercised. It all works like you would hope it
would, just as Berkley designed it.

The ftp program is very simular to other ftp implementations, probably because
the RFC doesn't leave much room for interpretation. You won't be loosing
anything
by using the DEC flavor.

NFS under VMS works reasonably. There are a few gotchas, especially if you are
trying to use it in a mixed access (VMS/*ix) environment. In this case, file
names and other nits need to use the most common method. There is however a
mode which if you are only using *ix will eliminate many of these gotchas.

I suggest the change, if for no other reason that the third party products will
likely break  when DECnet phase V becomes available (I can't really say
anything
more).

- Marc (An unbiased contract software hacker)

===========================================================================
Marc Evans - WB1GRH - evans@decvax.DEC.COM  | Synergytics     (603)635-8876
     Unix/X-window Software Contractor      | 21 Hinds Ln, Pelham, NH 03076
===========================================================================

eric@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Eric Fielding) (03/24/90)

In a recent article evans@decvax.DEC.COM wrote:
>In article <8240001@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM>, harmon@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bruce
>Harmon) writes:
>> I may be interested in making the transition from Wollongong's
>> TCP/IP (VMS hosted) to the new DEC product.  I also need two-way
>> NFS support VMS to/from a non-DEC Unix platform.  
>> be interesting.

>NFS under VMS works reasonably. There are a few gotchas, especially if you are
>trying to use it in a mixed access (VMS/*ix) environment. In this case, file
>names and other nits need to use the most common method. 
>- Marc (An unbiased contract software hacker)

We have been using the DEC VMS/Ultrix connection to do NFS serving of disks
from our VAXcluster to a DECstation.  It works very well. Unfortunately the
present version (1.2) does *not* allow a VMS machine to be a NFS client, so
it is a one-way only system (unless Marc has a newer version that works both
ways and can't tell us because of non-disclosure agreements).  The two 
problems that we have xD encountered are that the NFS$SERVER process likes to
grab about 6000 pages of physical memory which is a lot on a server with not
too much memory, and the other is the almost infinite variety of VMS file
types that are not very readable xD under U*ix.  Usually we have to use FTP
to transfer the files to U*ix and do the file format conversion. VMS  especially
C has no problem reading the 'Stream_LF' files from the shared disks. The
VMS editors seem pretty happy too.

					++Eric FIelding

sdowdy@ariel.unm.edu (Stephen Dowdy) (03/24/90)

In article <6922@decvax.dec.com> evans@decvax.DEC.COM writes:
)In article <8240001@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM>, harmon@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Bruce
)Harmon) writes:
)> ...
)> Areas of particular interest are the use of sockets, ftp, and NFS.
)> Performance and price relative to the Wollongong product would
)> be interesting.
)
)I use the product within DEC. I have used the Wollongong product in the past.
)I prefer the DEC product.
)...
)The ftp program is very simular to other ftp implementations, probably because
)the RFC doesn't leave much room for interpretation. You won't be loosing
)anything by using the DEC flavor.

FTP under UCX is less than perfect.  there is no MGET/MPUT facility.
(This i would consider a MAJOR drawback)  Also, i have had problems getting
UCX FTP to talk to CMU FTP.  I am not willing to say who's at fault here,
since i really don't know.  UCX FTP to anything else works fine, Anything
else to CMU works fine.  It is only UCX client/ CMU server (Ftp) that is
flaky.  (Symptom:  Nothing completes, including DIR,  It hangs at the end)

)I suggest the change, if for no other reason that the third party products will
)likely break  when DECnet phase V becomes available (I can't really say
)anything more).
)
)- Marc (An unbiased contract software hacker)

(Does the above statement seem to imply proprietary hooks?  Hardware LMF
in the Ethernet board to disallow other vendor software?... EEEKK)

Anyway, i was a CMU site until V1.2 UCX, where Telnet was supplied.
Since i am on ESL, and UCX is thusly "free", i went with it, since almost
all of our tcp/ip needs are TELNET oriented.  UCX Telnet has freed up
A LOT of cpu cycles (CMU Overhead) and runs pretty well.  (i found a bug
in the Rlogin/Telnet server that crashes the machine, but Alex Conta
at DEC helped debug it, and there is a patch now available)

There are quite a number of bugs/misfeatures in UCX V1.2, and it is the
least functional TCP/IP product available.  However, for us it is "free"
and runs pretty efficiently.  If you have money, the way i hear it,
Multinet is the most efficient and feature-ful product.  I would use it
if it were also "free". (or close to free)  I wouldn't be surprised if
UCX starts to get competitive though "in a future release".  the
addition of BIND in V1.3 will be a great blessing, and several of the
bugs/misfeatures i spoke with Alex@DEC about are due to be fixed in
that release.

As for wollongong...  I have run this on an 8650, and found it to be
less than likeable.  I have been flamed by a madman (:-)) before on
this, but my belief is that any product on VMS should do its best to
integrate with VMS.  That includes accepting ^Z as EOF, and having
a VMS CLD interface to software.  You may beg to differ...  WIn/VX
at least now has the protocol built into the driver, and hence is
on the same magnitude of performance as Multinet and UCX.  And i
regularly use the win/vx ftp on one of our machines to get CMU server
files, since UCX doesn't work that way.  I don't like the interface, and
given a choice of paying more for a better integrated package, would
gladly do so.

So, in summary, UCX has the fewest features, you should check to
see that you aren't giving up functionality in the switch, but
has the (perhaps) greatest "integratability" with VMS.  Multinet is
the highest performance and most featureful (doesn't appear to be
any more expensive than Wollongong)  Wollongong is the most
UNIX-ish (which i consider a great disadvantage) but then you already
know about win/vx.

-stephen