aha@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu (Advanced Hardware) (08/17/90)
Hi - Could anyone give me a summary of the available versions of UNIX for the PDP-11/23s? I got a mostly un-document system about a month ago and it has only the barest of RT-11 software on it. I would be interested in learning what UNIX is available and what I need in the way of HW to run such. If it helps, my current configuration is: PDP-11/23s (KDF11-B in a BA11-M with 32K CMOS RAM) Additional 128K DRAM 2 x 20Meg HD TK 70 cart. tape drive Thanks in advance for any help! Eric Schneider, Advanced Hardware Architectures PO BOX 9669 Moscow, ID (208) 883-8000 aha@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu or eric@wsu.edu or eric@cs2.cs.wsu.edu --
rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) (08/19/90)
In article <1990Aug17.055124.28953@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu>, aha@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu (Advanced Hardware) writes: > Hi - > > Could anyone give me a summary of the available versions of UNIX for the > PDP-11/23s? I got a mostly un-document system about a month ago and > it has only the barest of RT-11 software on it. I would be interested in > learning what UNIX is available and what I need in the way of HW to > run such. > > If it helps, my current configuration is: > > PDP-11/23s (KDF11-B in a BA11-M with 32K CMOS RAM) > Additional 128K DRAM > 2 x 20Meg HD > TK 70 cart. tape drive I hope we hear something better soon, but I started a dialog on this two months ago (I have an 11/73). The summary is this: 1. Of the four operating systems once offered for the PDP-11, RSX, RT-11, RSTS, and Ultrix, Digital has discontinued only one: Ultrix (Unix). So much for Digital's commitment to Unix. 2. Berkeley 2.10 is available from UCB, IF you have an AT&T source license ($10K?) and IF you have an old, non-MSCP drive (sorry!) and IF you have a 9-track tape drive (FORGET the TK-70!). 3. Venturecom has discontinued Venix for the PDP-11. IF they had a machine, they'd sell it for around $2000. 4. uniq (1-800-DEC-UNIX) has also discontinued their PDP-11 version. They are friendly, but apologetic. My DEC salesman is seeing if they have an old Ultrix-11 tape kicking around he can offer to me without support, but it's been over a month and I haven't heard anything. So there you have it - the summary of available Unix versions for the PDP-11 is that THERE AREN'T ANY. -- Rick Rodman uunet!virtech!rickr
verber@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Mark Verber) (08/19/90)
DEC had (at one time) a non-product called V7M1 which was version 7 Unix, with DEC device drivers and a couple of goodies like red (rand editor). Someone might have an old tape... I can't find mine... I swore off PDP-11s a number of years ago. You might want to check with Mark Williams about coherent (a v7 clone) and with Whitesmiths about Idris. At one time both companies supported pdp-11s.... they may still. --mark
amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen) (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp> rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodma >In article <1990Aug17.055124.28953@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu>, aha@snoopy.ece.wsu.edu >> Could anyone give me a summary of the available versions of UNIX for the >> PDP-11/23s? > >2. Berkeley 2.10 is available from UCB, IF you have an AT&T source license >($10K?) and IF you have an old, non-MSCP drive (sorry!) and IF you have >a 9-track tape drive (FORGET the TK-70!). > >So there you have it - the summary of available Unix versions for the PDP-11 >is that THERE AREN'T ANY. > But as you pointed out, it is available with a source license from UCB. Many educational sites have these licenses, and they are available to everyone. Something not being affordable (or reasonable) isn't the same as not being available. Now if anyone could possible live with 2.10. I was absolutely positive that dec dropeed it, and basically gave it to decus. I also positively remember being it in the decus catalog. Has anyone looked there ? Then there is aloways the GNU project, I also am positive that the 11 is one of the platforms under development there too. I even believe that it is available there too. al
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp>, rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) writes: > > 2. Berkeley 2.10 is available from UCB, IF you have an AT&T source license > ($10K?) and IF you have an old, non-MSCP drive (sorry!) and IF you have > a 9-track tape drive (FORGET the TK-70!). Well, you really can't fault Berkeley for the AT&T restrictions 8-). 2.10BSD wants a CPU with I/D space (which leaves out the '23) and float- ing point (standard on '73, optional on '23), and (last I looked) at least 512Kb of memory. You might be able to work around any one of these individ- ually, but 2 or more missing would be problematic. I just did a man ra on my 2.10 11/70, and it's there. I know of others who have used the driver, although I don't use it here. Also, I believe that TK50/70 support is being added. Of course, support is not the same thing as being distributed in that format, but it should be possible to build a TK70 kit if needed. > So there you have it - the summary of available Unix versions for the PDP-11 > is that THERE AREN'T ANY. I think that's a bit harsh, given the above. Also, AT&T did offer a System III for the PDP-11 (_that_ was the Unix with no MSCP support) as well as a System V (.1?) for the 11/70 only. I don't know if they still offer them, you'd have to ask... Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US terry@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
kaiser@cheese.enet.dec.com (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp>, rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) writes... >1. Of the four operating systems once offered for the PDP-11, RSX, RT-11, >RSTS, and Ultrix, Digital has discontinued only one: Ultrix (Unix). >So much for Digital's commitment to Unix. OOooohhhh, Big Bad Digital! Give me a break. Digital GAVE (as in "free") the source code of the last version of Ultrix-11 to Berkeley expecting it to stay alive that way, rather than freezing it and offering it as an archival product with no development and bug fixes -- the nearly nonexistent customer demand just doesn't warrant it. It's now available from Usenix, by arrangement with Berkeley I'd guess. ---Pete kaiser@cheese.enet.dec.com +1 508 480 4345 (machine: +1 617 641 3450)
ken@dali.gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp> rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) writes: > >1. Of the four operating systems once offered for the PDP-11, RSX, RT-11, >RSTS, and Ultrix, Digital has discontinued only one: Ultrix (Unix). >So much for Digital's commitment to Unix. > This is, of course, silly. Sun does not provide Unix for the Sun 100U's anymore either (Nothing since 3.2 supported them, I think). HP does not provide Unix for the HP9000/200 anymore, either. I haven't seen eithers commitment to Unix waver. The simple fact of the matter is DEC is still selling PDP archetecture machines to do real-time and process control sorts of things, but considering you can by many VAX models (VS2000, etc) for less than the cost of a new PDP-11, I really doubt people we're beating down the door to buy Ultrix/11 (*if*, in fact, they ever were...I have heard that there never were more than a very few thousand Ultrix/11 sites). Moral of the story: If you want to run a machine that hasn't even been produced in 5+ years, don't get wacked out of shape if the manufacturer has left you behind... -- ken seefried iii ken@dali.gatech.edu "Vee haf veyz off making you talk...release da veasles..."
ken@dali.gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (08/20/90)
In article <VERBER.90Aug19105302@capemay.mps.ohio-state.edu> verber@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Mark Verber) writes: >DEC had (at one time) a non-product called V7M1 which was version 7 Unix, >with DEC device drivers and a couple of goodies like red (rand editor). > I thought this was plain old vanilla V7. GaTech used to run it on an 11/45 (long before my time...). > >Someone might have an old tape... I can't find mine... I swore off PDP-11s >a number of years ago. > I'm sure there are quite a few of these old tapes laying around. The one at Tech seems to have disappeared (Radio Techwood (campus pirate radio station) tried to resurect the 11/45 and looked for the tape). I know it is "illegal" to pass a tape like this on to someone, but what is the practical limitations on passing on a V7 Unix tape (surely noone cares at this point...)? -- ken seefried iii ken@dali.gatech.edu "Vee haf veyz off making you talk...release da veasles..."
ken@dali.gatech.edu (Ken Seefried iii) (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.144332.477@spcvxb.spc.edu> terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: > > 2.10BSD wants a CPU with I/D space (which leaves out the '23) and float- >ing point (standard on '73, optional on '23), and (last I looked) at least >512Kb of memory. You might be able to work around any one of these individ- >ually, but 2 or more missing would be problematic. > If I am not mistaken, 2.9BSD is still availible and runs on non-split I/D machines. Of course, the old V7 stuff ran on non-split machines also. Now all you need is an AT&T source license and you can rock-n-roll ;'). -- ken seefried iii ken@dali.gatech.edu "Vee haf veyz off making you talk...release da veasles..."
minow@mountn.dec.com (Martin Minow) (08/20/90)
In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp>, rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) writes... >1. Of the four operating systems once offered for the PDP-11, RSX, RT-11, >RSTS, and Ultrix, Digital has discontinued only one: Ultrix (Unix). >So much for Digital's commitment to Unix. Digital has also "discontinued" several other operating systems for the PDP-11: -- Dos-11 and Dos-Batch. (replaced by RT11). -- IOX (paper-tape operating system). -- Caps-11 (IOX for casette tapes). -- RSTS-11 (RSTS/E running on an 11/20; replaced by RSTS/E). -- RSX-11D (replaced by RSX-11M and IAS). -- RSX-11B and -C (replaced by RSX-11S (?) and RSX-11M). Hmm, maybe RSX-11S is also obsolete. -- RSX-11A (replaced by other RSX variants). -- Multi-user Basic (4 Basic-users on an unmapped PDP-11). -- Focal (stand-alone). -- Mumps-11 (replaced by Digital Standard Mumps). -- Trax-11. Most of these appeared and disappeared in the early to mid 1970's. All of them were "operating systems" in the sense that they had a command-line interface and a centralized mechanism for device-independent I/O. Some of them, such as RSTS-11, had "systems programs" written in a high- level language. (RSX-11A, -B, -C, and -S were intended for embedded systems rather than programming and often did not have either command-line, programming, or file systems). Martin Minow. minow@bolt.enet.dec.com
thor@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Rich Neitzel) (08/20/90)
In article <1860@mountn.dec.com>, minow@mountn.dec.com (Martin Minow) writes: |>-- RSX-11B and -C (replaced by RSX-11S (?) and RSX-11M). Hmm, maybe |> RSX-11S is also obsolete. According to the Summer-Fall 1990 DECdirect RSX-11S is still alive and kicking. Richard Neitzel thor@thor.atd.ucar.edu Torren med sitt skjegg National Center For Atmospheric Research lokkar borni under sole-vegg Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000 Gjo'i med sitt shinn 303-497-2057 jagar borni inn.
rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick Rodman) (08/23/90)
In article <14695@shlump.nac.dec.com>, kaiser@cheese.enet.dec.com writes: > > In article <1990Aug19.034635.26429@virtech.uucp>, rickr@virtech.uucp (Rick > Rodman) writes... > > >1. Of the four operating systems once offered for the PDP-11, RSX, RT-11, > >RSTS, and Ultrix, Digital has discontinued only one: Ultrix (Unix). > >So much for Digital's commitment to Unix. > > OOooohhhh, Big Bad Digital! Give me a break. Your sarcasm is stupid. I point out that DEC's recent claims of commitment to Unix are hypocritical. I like DEC's hardware, but in the last few years they have turned from the company that built machines that were better to the company that does anything to lock people into their product. Now if you can't discuss things like that rationally, go suck an egg. > Digital GAVE (as in "free") the source code of the last version of Ultrix-11 to Big deal - that doesn't help consumers any. > Berkeley expecting it to stay alive that way, rather than freezing it and > offering it as an archival product with no development and bug fixes -- the > nearly nonexistent customer demand just doesn't warrant it. It's now available "Nearly nonexistent customer demand"? Do you see people on Usenet asking for RSTS or RT-11? But I suppose people on Usenet don't count. > from Usenix, by arrangement with Berkeley I'd guess. Meaning that it's only available to rich folks or academia. I'm pleased (maybe) to see so many people rushing to confirm EVERYTHING I said in my posting. In summary: Unless you have sixty-five or more thousand dollars lying around or work for a company or a university that does or already has a source license, UNIX IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE PDP-11. -- Rick Rodman uunet!virtech!rickr