jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) (10/09/90)
Thanks to all who replied to my inquiries concerning the TK50/RQDX2 problems I have been having. That conversation has taken off in a slightly different direction, but is still good reading. Here's my latest dilemma with my "used" MVII 8-) : I have a need for a SLIP link to another computer. I have two AVIV SDZV11 8 port serial cards, which are supposed to emulate the Dec cards. WHen running SLIP or just Kermiting to the other machine, the whole serial system just dies at random times. It seems to be that the incoming data is lost. If I ping the other machine, the Microvax sends, but does not receive the reply. This also happens when running Kermit, so it doesn't appear to be a SLIP driver problem. I have tried both cards, and the results are identical. Sometimes I can move a 100k file and sometimes I can't get 5 characters between the machines. All 8 ports die together. A terminal on tty00 will die also if SLIP on tty02 dies. This sounds like an input buffer problem to me. By the way, this is Ultrix 3.1 . Oh yes, the only way to restore the serial system is to reboot. Any ideas? Incidentally, for those of you to whom old MVII's are starting to filter down, let me reiterate my first two hassles with this machine. First...keep the VR260 monitor *cool*. The flyback in this monitor is capable of blowing with any kind of heat. I know. Second...if the MVII is dusty, check the voltage on the bus. The connectors from the power supply to the bus are cheesy and you can get over a volt of drop in the +5 supply. TTL doesn't work well on 4 volts. I've been through this one, too. If you have an extender card, pull some module, put it on the extender, and measure with a digital voltmeter from ground to +5 on some chip. If you don't have at least 4.9 volts, better clean up the power suppply/bus connectors. I hope this helps someone to not lose as much cranial hair as I did. -Jim Durham
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) (10/10/90)
In article <8810@pitt.UUCP>, jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) writes: > Second...if > the MVII is dusty, check the voltage on the bus. The connectors from > the power supply to the bus are cheesy and you can get over a volt > of drop in the +5 supply. TTL doesn't work well on 4 volts. I've > been through this one, too. If you have an extender card, pull > some module, put it on the extender, and measure with a digital > voltmeter from ground to +5 on some chip. If you don't have > at least 4.9 volts, better clean up the power suppply/bus connectors. > I hope this helps someone to not lose as much cranial hair as I did. If you're getting 4V there, it isn't dust 8-(. Seriously, if you have a BA23 master box (with front panel halt and restart buttons), you should have the power harness checked. The old harness can catch on fire. The way to tell if you have the proper harness is to open the BA23 up and look in the drive bays. The good harness is DEC part number 17-01311-01 and uses white connectors and various colored wires. If you have yellow con- nectors or a webbed cable (rather than individual wires) you have a potential safety hazard. Again, this *only* applies to BA23 boxes. If you're not comfort- able with doing this yourself, you can get DEC to look at it (which will cost you if you don't have a contract). Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US terry@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) (10/10/90)
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: > In article <8810@pitt.UUCP>, jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) writes: > > Seriously, if you have a BA23 master box (with front panel halt and restart > buttons), you should have the power harness checked. The old harness can catc > on fire. I can second this -- we had intermittent problems on a MicroVAX I a while ago. The problem was a cooked power harness. The cable had been pretty hot -- the connectors had cracked and the cable was quite an unhealthy shade of toasted brown. Don Stokes, ZL2TNM / / Home: don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz Systems Programmer /GP/ Government Printing Office Work: don@gp.govt.nz __________________/ /__Wellington, New Zealand_____or:_PSI%(5301)47000028::DON
cdl@chiton.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) (10/10/90)
In article <8810@pitt.UUCP> jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) writes: > Second...if >the MVII is dusty, check the voltage on the bus. The connectors from >the power supply to the bus are cheesy and you can get over a volt >of drop in the +5 supply. TTL doesn't work well on 4 volts. > If you have an extender card, pull >some module, put it on the extender, and measure with a digital >voltmeter from ground to +5 on some chip. 1) There are test points behind the front panel cover (on a BA23) that let you measure the +5 and +12 where it goes into the backplane. 2) The cable from the power supply to the backplane has been identified by DEC as a known fire hazard, a mandatory ECO. Field service will replace it for you at no charge. (at least they did for me) The new design of cable & connector seems much more reliable. Last week I had to shut down my MVII after 140 days of uptime, just because the building was being re-wired. -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein@ucsd.edu
amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Allen J Michielsen) (10/13/90)
In article <8810@pitt.UUCP> jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) writes: >a need for a SLIP link to another computer. I have two AVIV SDZV11 >8 port serial cards, which are supposed to emulate the Dec cards. >WHen running SLIP or just Kermiting to the other machine, the >whole serial system just dies at random times. The AVIV cards are quite old I would wager. Given that assumption, DEC had a problem with a batch of defective propriotary q-bus interface chip sets. As I recall they had the same problem, and it probably gets worse with age. Dec didn't seem to have any of their own cards affected but sent notices to all licensed developers of cards. You may find help from the code info on the bus interface chips and your local dec office. The digital unlisted spares program MAY also have info of this type. I'd say your chances of getting the replaced for free are just about zero, and the chip set costs about $100, if you can buy it from that same spares program. al -- Al. Michielsen, Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering, Syracuse University InterNet: amichiel@rodan.acs.syr.edu amichiel@sunrise.acs.syr.edu Bitnet: AMICHIEL@SUNRISE
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) (10/13/90)
In article <Bw7Zq1w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) writes: > I just pulled my MicroPDP-11 (11/73) to bits, and located the power > harness (under a *lot* of dust). It's part number 70-20450-01, with > yellow connectors, but separate coloured wires. Winner! Winner! You have one of the flaming power harnesses 8-) > What was the nature of the overheating problem? The part I have in my > hand looks OK, no sign of any heating. I flexed the conectors to check > if they had stiffened or become brittle from heat, and they're fine. You'll get blackening of the +5V (red wires) at the connector body. You may also get discoloration of the connector pins. I had a '73 that ran for several years with no problem, and then one day went *POOF*. No new boards, but it flamed out anyway. It's an accident wait- ing to happen. Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US terry@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) (10/13/90)
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: > If you're getting 4V there, it isn't dust 8-(. > > Seriously, if you have a BA23 master box (with front panel halt and restart > buttons), you should have the power harness checked. The old harness can catc > on fire. The way to tell if you have the proper harness is to open the BA23 > up and look in the drive bays. The good harness is DEC part number 17-01311-0 > and uses white connectors and various colored wires. If you have yellow con- > nectors or a webbed cable (rather than individual wires) you have a potential > safety hazard. Drat. I just pulled my MicroPDP-11 (11/73) to bits, and located the power harness (under a *lot* of dust). It's part number 70-20450-01, with yellow connectors, but separate coloured wires. What was the nature of the overheating problem? The part I have in my hand looks OK, no sign of any heating. I flexed the conectors to check if they had stiffened or become brittle from heat, and they're fine. I can't remember what type of cable the MicroVAX I that I saw cook a power harness had. Can you (or anyone else) remember the details before I go rummaging through the "museum" looking for the offending part or hassling DEC? Don Stokes, ZL2TNM / / Home: don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz Systems Programmer /GP/ Government Printing Office Work: don@gp.govt.nz __________________/ /__Wellington, New Zealand_____or:_PSI%(5301)47000028::DON
don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) (10/14/90)
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: > In article <Bw7Zq1w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes > > I just pulled my MicroPDP-11 (11/73) to bits, and located the power > > harness (under a *lot* of dust). It's part number 70-20450-01, with > > yellow connectors, but separate coloured wires. > > Winner! Winner! You have one of the flaming power harnesses 8-) Oh wonderful. I'll see if I can hassle a new part out of DEC. What's the story on getting fire hazards replaced outside warranty? Service contracts? You gotta be kidding! > You'll get blackening of the +5V (red wires) at the connector body. You may > also get discoloration of the connector pins. She seems ok at the moment, no discoloration of connector or cable attachment (I took off the black cap) -- I even threw caution to the wind and stuck a finger on the +5V wires after running the thing for a while. I also took off the black cap over the attachement of the wires to the connectors. Can't hurt to get it changed though -- *if* it can be done on the cheap! Don Stokes, ZL2TNM / / Home: don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz Systems Programmer /GP/ Government Printing Office Work: don@gp.govt.nz __________________/ /__Wellington, New Zealand_____or:_PSI%(5301)47000028::DON
jcd@pitt.UUCP (Jim Durham) (10/16/90)
In article <cNy2q3w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz> don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) writes: >terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: > >> In article <Bw7Zq1w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes >> > I just pulled my MicroPDP-11 (11/73) to bits, and located the power >> > harness...(stuff deleted) > >> Winner! >Oh wonderful..(stuff deleted) > >> You'll get blackening of the +5V (red wires) at the connector body. You may >> also get discoloration of the connector pins. > This is pretty simple physics..Power (read: Heat) = Volts times Amps. In my case, 1 volt drop times , lets say, 20 amps of current = 20 w of heat. The trick is to keep the voltage drop down. My experience with these "Molex" style connectors is that they are not good for high-current applications. Even if DEC has a new whiz-bang style replacement, the pins on the power supply and bus are still the same old tinned junk. My original comments still apply. Keep 'em clean! > >Don Stokes, ZL2TNM / / Home: don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz Hi Don, I'm W2XO (that's ham radio talk, for you bit-pusher-only types 8-) ). -Jim Durham jcd@vax.cs.pitt.edu | durham@w2xo.pgh.pa.us
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) (10/16/90)
In article <cNy2q3w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) writes: > Oh wonderful. I'll see if I can hassle a new part out of DEC. What's > the story on getting fire hazards replaced outside warranty? Service > contracts? You gotta be kidding! Ok. Here's the complete scoop (and by the way, BA123's *are* also affected): Box Bad cable Good cable FCO Kit p/n Status Cost USMLP Date ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- ------ ---------- ----- BA23-AX,BX 70-20450-01 17-01311-01 EQ-01427-01 I, N/A N/A 12/86 BA23-C/D 70-20450-02 17-01312-01 EQ-01467-01 I, N/A $34.00 07/87 BA123 17-00865-01 17-01311-02 EQ-01468-01 I, N/A N/A 01/88 This should give you all you need to know. The "Status" means that it's an "Improvement" call FCO, and is chargable to non-contract customers and free upon request to contract customers. The "N/A" in "Status" means that as far as I can tell, the EQ kit is no longer available and you have to order the loose piece part. The "Cost USMLP" is the cost to buy the loose piece part. If it's "N/A", it means it is an unlisted part and you have to get it by spec- ial order. *PLEASE NOTE*. I don't work for DEC. The above is not an official statement of DEC's position. Contact your local DEC representative for official infor- mation. [The preceding sentences paid for by the "Avoid the Lawyers" campaign.] > She seems ok at the moment, no discoloration of connector or cable > attachment (I took off the black cap) -- I even threw caution to the > wind and stuck a finger on the +5V wires after running the thing for > a while. I also took off the black cap over the attachement of the > wires to the connectors. Can't hurt to get it changed though -- *if* > it can be done on the cheap! The problem with the old cables is that the yellow/black connector depends on IDC for the connection. Imagine sticking a piece of insulated wire into the tines of a dinner fork. Get a good connection? I thought not 8-). That's what is being changed - to a conventional stripped+crimped connection. Terry Kennedy Operations Manager, Academic Computing terry@spcvxa.bitnet St. Peter's College, US terry@spcvxa.spc.edu (201) 915-9381
johnd@physiol.su.oz.au (John Dodson) (10/21/90)
In <cNy2q3w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz> don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) writes: >terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: >> In article <Bw7Zq1w163w@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes >> > I just pulled my MicroPDP-11 (11/73) to bits, and located the power >> > harness (under a *lot* of dust). It's part number 70-20450-01, with >> > yellow connectors, but separate coloured wires. >> >> Winner! Winner! You have one of the flaming power harnesses 8-) >Oh wonderful. I'll see if I can hassle a new part out of DEC. What's >the story on getting fire hazards replaced outside warranty? Service >contracts? You gotta be kidding! Oh dear ! First time this happened to me, I just bought the connectors locally (nice white ones ;-) & crimped (& soldered to be safe ;-) the new cables myself. This has worked for 7 PDP11/73's & 4 uvax II's, if anyone in Australia need's these connectors mail me, I have about 20 left ! ;-) I've used a lot in other departments at this Uni, having bought 50 originally ;-) You can have them cheap, say 50c each & $50 for the advice ;-) I could even mail "ready made" to the US if you are desperate & would like to make a donation to medical science ;-) Please guys (& gals) consult your technical staff or local connector supplier & save $$$$$$. Don't hassle DEC field service they are too busy with their fire extinguishers ;-) John Dodson, Dept of Physiology, johnd@physiol.su.oz.au University of Sydney, Phone +61-2-692-3277 NSW 2006 Fax +61-2-692-2058 Australia.
don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz (Don Stokes) (10/24/90)
terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr) writes: [Flaming power harnesses on BA23s] > Ok. Here's the complete scoop (and by the way, BA123's *are* also affected): > > Box Bad cable Good cable FCO Kit p/n Status Cost USMLP Date > ---------- ----------- ----------- ----------- ------ ---------- ----- > BA23-AX,BX 70-20450-01 17-01311-01 EQ-01427-01 I, N/A N/A 12/86 > BA23-C/D 70-20450-02 17-01312-01 EQ-01467-01 I, N/A $34.00 07/87 > BA123 17-00865-01 17-01311-02 EQ-01468-01 I, N/A N/A 01/88 The good news is that DEC presented me with a new power harness cable today, free of charge (or freight -- it hitched a lift with our friendly DEC Field Service Person who was attending to a slightly malfunctioning 8550). The bad news is that the part they gave me is P/N 17-01311-02 (ie the part for a BA123), not -01 (the BA23 part), and no matter what contortions I try, it physically will not reach between the connectors on the power supply and the BA23's backplane. I didn't think it looked quite right, and questioned it on taking delivery (but didn't have part numbers on me at the time, and was more concerned about the ailing VAX). Sigh. Don Stokes, ZL2TNM / / Home: don@zl2tnm.gp.govt.nz Systems Programmer /GP/ Government Printing Office Work: don@gp.govt.nz __________________/ /__Wellington, New Zealand_____or:_PSI%(5301)47000028::DON