[comp.sys.dec] RD54 Woes, yet again

rainer@rhubarb.colorado.edu (Rainer Malzbender) (12/20/90)

Say I had a Microvax II and an RD54 disk drive. Say also that I tried to
use the RD54 without one of those little "write-protect, ready" pushbutton
panels on the front. Would this possibly screw up the disk ? This is the
second time I seem to have wiped out the factory formatting on this drive.

Say, furthermore, that I was running VMS 4.7. Could this be a problem? I am
trying to upgrade to 5.whatever, but first I need a working RD54.

I apologize for contributing to the many whiny "help me" posts, but I promise
to help someone else if I can!
--
Rainer Malzbender, PhD 
Dept. of Physics   (303)492-6829
U. of Colorado, Boulder        rainer@boulder.colorado.edu 128.138.240.246

joltes@husc9.harvard.edu (Richard Joltes) (12/21/90)

In article <1990Dec19.234817.14316@csn.org> rainer@rhubarb.colorado.edu (Rainer Malzbender) writes:
>Say I had a Microvax II and an RD54 disk drive. Say also that I tried to
>use the RD54 without one of those little "write-protect, ready" pushbutton
>panels on the front. Would this possibly screw up the disk ? This is the
>second time I seem to have wiped out the factory formatting on this drive.

First, I'm presuming you're referring to a BA123 (world box) cabinet.

I've used RD5x drives of all types on the BA123 without the write protect
modules with no problem.  All the modules do is enable the toggling of drive
ready and write protect.  They're not essential.

Now if you're using a BA23 enclosure, remember that you'll need a 6-button
front panel if you're trying to support 2 drives (and I'd run the second hard
disk from an external power supply, since hanging two hard drives on the BA23
supply isn't supported because it strains the supply).
>
>Say, furthermore, that I was running VMS 4.7. Could this be a problem? I am
>trying to upgrade to 5.whatever, but first I need a working RD54.

The VMS version shouldn't bother this, and I can think of no bugs in 4.7 that
would cause this sort of behaviour.  You don't mention which disk controller
you're using.  If it's not an RQDX3 this may be the problem, since as far as
I know the RQDX1 and 2 don't support the RD54.  It also may be the PROM version
on your RQDX3, although I *think* all firmware revs on the 3 support the RD54.
>
>I apologize for contributing to the many whiny "help me" posts, but I promise
>to help someone else if I can!

This list is here to offer help to people who need it, and to distribute info
to as many people as possible.  Apologies unnecessary.

Good Luck, and please let me know how it turns out.
>--
>Rainer Malzbender, PhD 
>Dept. of Physics   (303)492-6829
>U. of Colorado, Boulder        rainer@boulder.colorado.edu 128.138.240.246

Dick Joltes					joltes@husc9.harvard.edu
Mgr. of Hardware & Facilities
Harvard University Science Center

dan@gacvx2.gac.edu (12/22/90)

In article <1990Dec19.234817.14316@csn.org>, rainer@rhubarb.colorado.edu (Rainer Malzbender) writes:
> Say I had a Microvax II and an RD54 disk drive. Say also that I tried to
> use the RD54 without one of those little "write-protect, ready" pushbutton
> panels on the front. Would this possibly screw up the disk ? This is the
> second time I seem to have wiped out the factory formatting on this drive.
> 
> Say, furthermore, that I was running VMS 4.7. Could this be a problem? I am
> trying to upgrade to 5.whatever, but first I need a working RD54.
> 
> I apologize for contributing to the many whiny "help me" posts, but I promise
> to help someone else if I can!
> --
> Rainer Malzbender, PhD 
> Dept. of Physics   (303)492-6829
> U. of Colorado, Boulder        rainer@boulder.colorado.edu 128.138.240.246

After spending an entire day trying to get two new RD54's to format (one had
the switch, the other didn't), I cannot recommend running the RQDX03 with any
of those write-protect/ready switches missing.  With out the switch the control
line floats and you cannot trust the drive controler to write to any of the
disks on the system.  Having just one of the four switches on my system
missing, messed up my whole controler.  There is no good way to tie the line
high or low without the switch.

-- 
Dan Boehlke                    Internet:  dan@gac.edu
Campus Network Manager         BITNET:    dan@gacvax1.bitnet
Gustavus Adolphus College
St. Peter, MN 56082 USA        Phone:     (507)933-7596

terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) (12/29/90)

In article <2190@shodha.enet.dec.com>, alan@shodha.enet.dec.com ( Alan's Home for Wayward Notes File.) writes:
> 	Now, the symtom of a disk "unformatting" itself is something
> 	I have seen, when the disk is the "Lepracaun" box.  Generally
> 	this was used in configurations with one disk inside a BA23
> 	and the other outside connected via an RQDXE.  If, for example
> 	you turn off the system, but leave the disk turned on, it will
> 	appear to unformat itself.  If you turn off the system then turn
> 	off the disk, you'll get a bad block or two.  When turning on
> 	or off this setup you HAVE (HAVE!!!) to do things in the right
> 	order.  The rule is simple.
> 
> 		NEVER have the disk turned on by itself.

  I remember this. The solution involved some changes to the RQDXE extender
module. The FCO is RQDXE-I001, Feb '87, which raises the M7513 module from
CS A1 to CS B1. The kit part number is EQ-01456-01.

  With this installed, I haven't had any problems (I have an RD54 in my
11/83 and another one in a RD54-DA lep box). I also have the BA23-UC "Six
button front panel upgrade" kit, which duplicates the lep box's ready and
write protect buttons on the BA23.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, US
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	(201) 915-9381

alan@shodha.enet.dec.com ( Alan's Home for Wayward Notes File.) (12/29/90)

In article <1990Dec19.234817.14316@csn.org>, rainer@rhubarb.colorado.edu (Rainer Malzbender) writes:
> Say I had a Microvax II and an RD54 disk drive. Say also that I tried to
> use the RD54 without one of those little "write-protect, ready" pushbutton
> panels on the front. Would this possibly screw up the disk ? 

	The important question is what kind of box do you have
	the RD54 in?  The three most common I can think of are
	the BA23 pedestal (tall, narrow and deep), the BA123
	(world box), and the "Lepracaun" desktop enclosure.

	It's been a long time since I needed to know, but I think
	in the BA23 and probably the Lepracaun if you didn't have
	the write-protect/ready switch couldn't be sure how the
	disk would come up when turned on.  I think the word I've
	seen used is "Indeterminate".  In the case of the BA123
	it would default to some known state of the signal from
	the button wasn't present.  I don't remember what the default
	state was, but I suspect it was ready/not-write-protected.

	Now, the symtom of a disk "unformatting" itself is something
	I have seen, when the disk is the "Lepracaun" box.  Generally
	this was used in configurations with one disk inside a BA23
	and the other outside connected via an RQDXE.  If, for example
	you turn off the system, but leave the disk turned on, it will
	appear to unformat itself.  If you turn off the system then turn
	off the disk, you'll get a bad block or two.  When turning on
	or off this setup you HAVE (HAVE!!!) to do things in the right
	order.  The rule is simple.

		NEVER have the disk turned on by itself.

	This particular problem could also be duplicated by having
	the cables hooked up wrong, but that made it seriously not
	useable.

> Say, furthermore, that I was running VMS 4.7. Could this be a problem? I am
> trying to upgrade to 5.whatever, but first I need a working RD54.

	Can't help here.  I only pay attention to ULTRIX.
> 
> --
> Rainer Malzbender, PhD 
-- 
Alan Rollow				alan@nabeth.enet.dec.com

terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) (01/03/91)

In article <1991Jan2.223448.25943@csus.edu>, cooling@cssmtf.ccs.csus.edu (Mike Cooling) writes:
> This topic reminds me of problems we have had in trying to add an RD52, or
> any RDxx drive to a uVAX II when the BA23 already had a pair of floppies and
> an RD53. There is no "protect buttons" available and the drive seems to come
> up as unready to the system, but VMS does see it. It was our opinion that
> there are jumpers on the disk drive to change the default so that it comes 
> up ready.   We could never get any DEC CE or anyone else to give us a clue
> as to whether this assumption is correct let alone how the jumpers should
> be set, because such a configuration is "unsupported".  This may be related
> to the other described problem.   

  You should look at article <1990Dec30.091947.928@spcvxb.spc.edu>, where I
said:

> This is available from DECdirect +1-800-DIGITAL as part number BA23-UC.

  in reference to the 6-button front panel upgrade. That article contains
other important information on this subject, and I suggest you read it.

  As fat as "jumpers on the disk drive" go, the RD5x are (at least as far
as this subject is concerned) industry-standard 5.25" drives. There are no
jumpers for ready/write protect on the drive itself. The front panel gener-
ates those signals and passes them on to the RQDXn controller.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, US
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	(201) 915-9381

esther@vrdxhq.verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon) (01/10/91)

terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) writes:

>In article <1991Jan2.223448.25943@csus.edu>, cooling@cssmtf.ccs.csus.edu (Mike Cooling) writes:
>> This topic reminds me of problems we have had in trying to add an RD52, or
>> any RDxx drive to a uVAX II when the BA23 already had a pair of floppies and
>> an RD53. There is no "protect buttons" available and the drive seems to come
      [...]
>  You should look at article <1990Dec30.091947.928@spcvxb.spc.edu>, where I
>said:

>> This is available from DECdirect +1-800-DIGITAL as part number BA23-UC.

About 1.5 years ago, I needed such a piece. DECdirect told me that they
couldn't sell that part, I had to get it from Spares. Spares told me that I had
to purchase the _entire_ front panel for the BA123 world box.

I bought it from a third-party vendor.

I would offer to send you the address, price, part # and diagram showing the
part... but I don't work for that employer anymore.  Hopefully you can get that
from DEC or from a third-party vendor.
-- 
------ Esther Lumsdon  Product Support Engineer, Verdix Corporation
  esther@verdix.com or vrdxhq!esther@uunet.uu.net
Formerly lumsdon@dtrc.dt.navy.mil; if all else fails, forwarding is reliable.

terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.) (01/10/91)

In article <44436@vrdxhq.verdix.com>, esther@vrdxhq.verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon) writes:
> About 1.5 years ago, I needed such a piece. DECdirect told me that they
> couldn't sell that part, I had to get it from Spares. Spares told me that I
> had to purchase the _entire_ front panel for the BA123 world box.

  I think there is some confusion here. The inserts for a BA123 are supplied
with DEC disks when ordered for a BA123. These are individual ready/protect
assembles, and are added one-at-a-time as drives are added.

  The item I was discussing is a replacement front panel for the BA23, which
is a single unit for both drives, power switch, halt, restart, etc.

  By the way, DEC has improved their "Unlisted Parts" service. You can now
order just about anything (as long as DEC has some in stock 8-), and they
transfer you to DECdirect to take the order. I've even ordered such unorder-
ables as the VAX 8650 logo strip, which (like all "logo" parts) used to be
_impossible_ to get. To use the new service, just call +1-603-884-5000 with
the part number you need and ask for "unlisted parts". If you don't know
the part number, try looking on the item if you already have one. Otherwise,
call the above phone number and ask for "part number assistance". Be pre-
parted to give:

  o The model number or name of the whole unit the part goes into (like
    "RA60")
  o The major assembly the part is part of (like "front panel")
  o The exact thing you're looking for (like "door latch solenoid")

  and they will look it up for you. It's important to describe the part ac-
curately, and ask for the description when they find it, as these parts are
non-returnable and they may not have a clear understanding of what you want,
or there may be 2 similar parts in the assembly.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, US
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	(201) 915-9381