wald@dover.sps.mot.com (Steve Wald) (04/16/91)
I am using a new Decstation 5000 with its crummy LK201 keyboard and X-windows environment. I have a few questions (probable FAQs) and some _gripes_ about setting up key bindings, menus, mouse operation, X functions.... If you would email your responses to me I would be happy to post a summary: wald@dover.sps.mot.com If the answer is in a manual or release note somewhere, please point me to the right one. Comments like RTFM don't help at all. I have four of 'em open right now. My DS5000/200 system is running MWM under: ULTRIX V4.0 (Rev. 179) System #7: Fri Jan 18 15:43:53 MST 1991 UWS V4.0 (Rev. 164) Questions (pardon the gripey tone and the length of the list): (Key Bindings) Does anyone have a set of Xdefault key translations that will set up the labelled keys to do what the labels say... e.g. "Insert Here" (paste?), "Remove" (cut?), "Prev/Next Screen", and "Help"? Would someone mind telling me what "Do" is supposed to _do_? Is there any kind of standard setup for the F1-20 function keys? I found the sample set of key bindings in the man page on X, but those bindings make no use of function keys or pre-labeled keys whatsoever. Obviously they were written for the "generic" machine. (MWM Functions) Where is the list of f.functions I can put into ".mwmrc"? Is it possible to copy the "pause" and "quit" functions from the session menu of session-manager into the root menu? (MWM Menus) I would like to create an "Edit" menu for a submenu of the SampleWindowMenu. It would have "Cut", "Copy", "Paste", and "Clear". I found "dxcut" in the man pages, but there is no such thing in my path to execute. So, where is it, and where are dxcopy, dxpaste, and dxclear? (You can tell I am used to a Macintosh, can't you.) Of course, I would also like to bind these to F1-F4 (except that F1 seems to be reserved as the "hold" key). Why won't "Close" (f.kill) cause a CLEAN exit from the application? For a long time I wase plagued with zero-length JNL files from dxnotepad until I realized "Close" from the window menu wasn't doing the same thing as Quit or Exit from the application menu bar. (dx... apps) Is it possible to get mouse Btn2 to pull down the menu-bar menus instead of JUST Btn1? Why isn't there any standardization among resource names? E.g. "startup_state" vs. "initialState"; "x" and "y" vs. "geometry".... (dxterm) When I hit the button with a large square in the upper right of the frame on a dxterm window, the window first expands to fill the screen then drops back to some slightly smaller size to fit the font in use. OK, but then when I hit the large square button again, the dxterm does NOT revert to its original size, but tries to expand again. Bug? Is there a way to disable that button on dxterm windows? Just HOW do I get dxterm to behave like a proper vt#00 with programs that produce graphics? I tried to get HSPLOT (the plot routine with HSPICE) to work under all sorts of customize (General Terminal ID) options and HSPLOT output terminal types and despite hours of work NEVER GOT A SINGLE GRAPHIC LINE OF OUTPUT. Only text came through. Why doesn't dxterm have a SEARCH menu like dxnotepad? Can I please have a terminal font whose "normal" set is like the dec-terminal font's "bold" set? On this screen the 14pt "normal" font looks grey and washed-out and is very hard to read. (dxnotepad) Is there some way to get "dxnotepad" to replace word-wrapping with actual <CR>'s? E.g. preparatory to posting the file. (dxue) What gives with saving views in the "User Executive"? Why won't dxue put changes made in the CUSTOMIZE menu into ALL the views? Why does it save ALL the menu items and file type crud for all views EXCEPT the Startup View? Why does it wait until "Exit" to update ".ue_profile"? In fact, "Save as Startup View" does not work at all. It looks like the startup view always becomes whatever state the UE was in when last exited. Where is the spec that tells dxue what each different file type is for double click actions? What is the resource/value to tell dxue to startup as an icon? (scroll bars) Is there some way to change the scroll bars in all the dx... windows to work the way the xman window's work? (Window text moves while I hold down Btn2 on the scroll bar and move it up or down). (mouse) Why isn't there something in the manuals on the operation of the mouse? I had to have someone else show me how to copy & paste using mouse button three (Btn3), after struggling with cut, copy and paste from the (sometimes nonexistant) "Edit" menu for weeks. Can this operation be modified by the user? How? Why does it paste a bunch of random stuff if the mouse slips and moves while Btn3 is down? What about changing the operation of Btn2 with pull down menues? Is there any way to remember the last menu item and use that as a default (highlighted, under the cursor, waiting for just a click). Can I change it from holding only while the button is pressed to waiting (like it does when the "-" box on the frame is pressed)? Is there some way to get Btn2 to pull down the menu from a menu bar (instead of only Btn1), since Btn2 is the menu button for everything else? It seems like there is still a lot of operational detail hidden from the user. (keyboard) What is the magic incantation to assign function keys to Xwindow functions? Why don't the "Prev Screen", "Next Screen", "Insert Here", "Remove", and "Select" keys do anything in ANY application? "Find" works (sort-of) in dxnotepad, but NOWHERE ELSE! **FLAME** Who is the IDIOT that put the "\" key inbetween "'" and <Return>??? If this guy WANTED to frustrate a zillion touch typists, he couldn't have found a better way! (Except perhaps to totally rearrange everything... was Dvorak NUTS or WHAT?) <That'll start a netwar I bet>. (man) Is DEC working on a dxman to replace xman? If so, I would like to be able to select/copy text from the manual and hyper-click my way through references etc. Having Btn1 and Btn3 scroll the text up and down when there is a scroll bar available is USELESS. The "Prev/Next Screen" buttons would be handy here. Be sure to put in a search function ... and Pleease leave the directory page where it WAS while I click to the manual page and back. Does anyone know what makes xman just DIE in the middle of a click-on-something-in-the-directory operation? The windows all close and disappear with nothing but a "Process # exited" message to the parent. -------FLAME ON-------- Why doesn't DEC provide decent keyboard & window setups with their installations? Sure, the users would change things, but it would be much better to have a usable set of bindings to start with wouldn't it? How long have they been working in this environment? Surely their designers and engineers have done better for themselves than what they sold ME. WHO IS KEEPING ALL THE GOOD STUFF HIDDEN??? DEC should be PROVIDING IT! -------FLAME OFF------- To be fair, DEC provides a lot of help whenever I have REAL problems. The response time on their 800 number is excellent. Their hardware service is commendable. DEC even sent an account manager to my site for a visit. (I gave her this list... don't know how far it'll get). I suppose if I had time to follow up on every one of these gripes via DEC service, most of them could be solved eventually... but hey, if people on the net have already fixed these problems... I could really use some help here. Thanks for listening. -- Steve Wald, Motorola Inc. wald@dover.sps.mot.com
wald@dover.tmc.edu (Steve Wald) (04/18/91)
This is the harshest indictment against DEC software quality I've seen yet: ----------------------- From: uunet!reed.edu!minar (Nelson Minar) Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR a lot of the special keys on the keyboard have nothing to do with actual functionality. What do we do? We run a real windowing system - X11R4, not DEC X. Try typing "rm /usr/bin/dx*" to start with. -- minar@reed.edu ----------------------- And more excerpts from another sympathizer: ----------------------- From: Ethan Merritt <uunet!u.washington.edu!merritt> Organization: University of Washington, Seattle ... after a brief try using MWM, OWM, and the DEC-supplied window manager whose name escapes me at the moment, I tried and stuck with TWM as being by far the most comfortable. ... The configuration file .twmrc is highly commented and I have found customization of many of the sorts of behaviour you're griping about to be straightforward. I believe that the various other window managers can in fact be made to do the same things, but it was my experience that the documentation to tell you how wasn't anywhere obvious. [lots of specific answers to my questions deleted... send email for a copy] In general you may want to pull over current X11 utilities from the MIT distribution rather than using the ones that come bundled with Ultrix. I think that the Ultrix ones are slightly more integrated with the system, but they also seem to be several version behind, bugs and all. There is a lot of good stuff available via anonymous ftp from MIT (try expo.lcs.mit.edu) and from gatekeeper.dec.com, among other sites. Not just X11. If you do any image viewing or manipulation I recommend picking up a copy of ImageMagick from either of the above ftp sites. merritt@u.washington.edu ----------------------- Thanks to Nelson and Ethan for proving that I'm not alone. Sympathies to any RESPONSIBLE engineer/managers at DEC who lost the battle to provide the GOOD STUFF with the workstations in the first place. -- Steve Wald, Motorola Inc. wald@dover.sps.mot.com
merritt@milton.u.washington.edu (Ethan Merritt) (04/18/91)
In the above referenced postings Steve Wald (wald@dover.sps.mot.com) is griping about [software] quality control in the Ultrix/DECwindows environment, and quotes me as supporting his dis-satisfaction. I just want to state for the record in the same forum that I am quite happy with the DECstation, and that my recommendation to Steve to pick up more recent versions of X11 utilities should not be construed as a complaint about the state of DEC-supplied software. For one thing, Steve said he was constrained to run Ultrix 4.0 (and I presume an older DECwindows version). I just pointed out that more recent X11 and other programming tools were available even without going through DEC for an Ultrix update. Still, while we're on the subject of Steve's gripe list... _does_ anyone out there know how to make the scroll bars on a DECterm window scroll the text in realtime rather than after releasing the mouse button? Ethan A Merritt -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dept of Biological Structure H510 Health Sciences University of Washington SM-20 (206)543-8865 Seattle, WA 98195 merritt@u.washington.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------