apolivka@x102a.harris-atd.com (polivka al 60047) (07/20/90)
I would like to hear from anyone who has synchronized their sequencer
with a tape recorder i.e. by recording a sync signal on one of the
recorder tracks and (analog) music on the other channel(s). This
allows playback of the sequenced music directly out of the
synthesizers in synchronization with the recorded part(s).
In particular I'd like to know:
1. did you have any problems (e.g. crosstalk of the sync signal into
another channel, loss of sync, etc.)?
2. what type of recorder did you use?
3. what type of sync signal did you use?
4. did you have any noise reduction (Dolby, dbx) enabled on the sync
channel of the tape recorder?
The reason I am asking is that I am considering getting one of the
small multitrack cassette recorders and would like to use one of its
channels to record a sync signal from my sequencer (which
unfortunately does not have SMPTE but does have some other non-chasing
sync capabilities).
I tried using it with my VHS Hi-Fi VCR last night and found that some
of the sync signal (recorded on the right channel) crosstalked into
the other (left) channel of my recorder.
As mentioned above, I am thinking about getting a 4-track cassette,
but would hate to find similar problems with it.
I would appreciate feedback from anyone having experience with this.
Thanks,
Al
--
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Al Polivka arpa: apolivka@x102a.ess.harris.com
Mail Stop 102-4858 usenet: uunet!x102a!apolivka
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------------------------------------------------------------------------scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) (07/21/90)
In article <APOLIVKA.90Jul20121742@x102a.harris-atd.com> apolivka@x102a.harris-atd.com (polivka al 60047) writes: >[syncing a sequencer to tape] >In particular I'd like to know: > 1. did you have any problems (e.g. crosstalk of the sync signal into > another channel, loss of sync, etc.)? No problems with crosstalk. The sync can become unstable if used with noise reduction (it's hit and miss). After the various projects I've done using sync sucessfully, I just expect to work. > 2. what type of recorder did you use? Tascam 244 (4-track) and Tascam 688 (8-track). > 3. what type of sync signal did you use? SMPTE > 4. did you have any noise reduction (Dolby, dbx) enabled on the sync > channel of the tape recorder? You can do sync with noise reduction but I wouldn't bank a major recording project on it. If you plan on syncing I strongly recommend you get a deck with defeatable noise reduction on one track. >I tried using it with my VHS Hi-Fi VCR last night and found that some >of the sync signal (recorded on the right channel) crosstalked into >the other (left) channel of my recorder. I have found that the crosstalk on regular stereo decks is much higher than on multi-track recorders. The type of application used with regular stereo decks does not suffer from a little crosstalk. On the other hand, multi-track decks are designed for applications where program material on one track must be isolated from an adjacent track. Tascam is very good about this and I suspect you'll find this to be true for many other brands as well. -- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott
eatond@mail.enet.dec.com (My name is...) (07/21/90)
I am in a similar position as you, making preparations to buy a tape deck (4 tracks) and have narrowed it down to either of the two Yamaha 4-tracks - the MT3X ($679 at Sam Ash) or the MT100 mk II ($379 at Sam Ash). I also plan on syncing my MC500 to it. Let me fill you in on some of the conclusions I've come up with... 1) Regarding FSK sync... It would appear that some sequencers send a strong enough signal to stripe a sync track and later read it even with dbx on that track. My MC500 is one that fits in this category. I did an experiment with my home stereo deck using external dbx (a dbx 122 unit) and it responded exactly the same with dbx either on or off. Note: I did have a problem at the tail end of the piece where the sequencer would hang up until the trailer signal stopped. It did this with dbx both on and off on seven out of eight trys. If it persists, I'll simply add a few extra measures (empty ones) at the tail of the sequence on the MC500. For what its worth, dolby NR (either B or C) seems to cause no problems with FSK at all (Fostex makes this claim on their dolby C decks). Dbx, as stated above, *can* be a problem, but also can be no trouble. As an interesting aside, Tascam's Porta 05 entry level 4-track (usually sold for around $400), claims to accept sync signals on track 4, but has no dbx defeat option for that track. It *does*, however, offer a bandpass filter on a special sync output jack. The more expensive decks have a switch to defeat NR on the 4th track. 2) Feature for feature, quality vs. quality, the Yamaha decks seem to win out over the competition for decks of equal price. I have never personally done side-by-side listening tests, so all this is from people I have heard tapes os and from their comments. What I would like to add to this discussion is to ask people who may have actually done side by side comparisons and see what their conclusions were on the Yamaha decks. Also, it is my hunch that the actual recording mechanisms and electronics for both the MT100 II and the MT3X are the same and that the differences between them are in other areas (extra channels on the internal mixer, auto-punch, and dbx defeat on track 4). Does anyone have any information on this? Dan Eaton ******************************************************************************** * Opinions Expressed are not necessarily those of my employer * ********************************************************************************
alves@alcor.usc.edu (William Alves) (07/21/90)
In article <APOLIVKA.90Jul20121742@x102a.harris-atd.com> apolivka@x102a.harris-atd.com (polivka al 60047) writes: >I would like to hear from anyone who has synchronized their sequencer >with a tape recorder i.e. by recording a sync signal on one of the >recorder tracks and (analog) music on the other channel(s). This >allows playback of the sequenced music directly out of the >synthesizers in synchronization with the recorded part(s). > >In particular I'd like to know: > 1. did you have any problems (e.g. crosstalk of the sync signal into > another channel, loss of sync, etc.)? First of all, there are several types of sync: you're probably talking about FSK (Frequency Shift Keying), but there's also SMPTE, which is much more powerful, but I haven't had as much experience with it. In addition I've done some stuff with Synclavier's godawful 50 Hz sync tone. I've had some problems with FSK, but not too often. The most common problem has been tempo drifting because of tape playback or other problems. Crosstalk is potentially a problem, but normally I record the tone at -15 to -20 VU and then crank up the playback level. You should also record it on an out- side track. > 2. what type of recorder did you use? I've mainly used 1-inch or 2-inch tape. I used 1/4 inch one time, and cross- talk was more of a problem. I've never used it on 4-track cassette, but I'd be pretty wary of that problem if I were you. > 4. did you have any noise reduction (Dolby, dbx) enabled on the sync > channel of the tape recorder? > Never! I believe that the Tascam Portastudio, for example, lets you defeat dbx on channel 4 just for this purpose. Hope this helps. Bill
jboggs@inco.UUCP (John Boggs) (07/25/90)
In article <APOLIVKA.90Jul20121742@x102a.harris-atd.com> apolivka@x102a.harris-atd.com (polivka al 60047) writes: >I would like to hear from anyone who has synchronized their sequencer >with a tape recorder i.e. by recording a sync signal on one of the >recorder tracks and (analog) music on the other channel(s). This >allows playback of the sequenced music directly out of the >synthesizers in synchronization with the recorded part(s). > >In particular I'd like to know: > 1. did you have any problems (e.g. crosstalk of the sync signal into > another channel, loss of sync, etc.)? In order to avoid crosstalk of the sync signal to the audio tracks you need to experiment with the signal level of the sync signal. I have had problems occasionally with crosstalk back the other way (audio interfering with sync) but only if I record a drum track with cymbals on the adjacent track. Here, again, you need to experiment with recording levels 'till you find a combina- tion that's right for you. Keep notes as you experiment so you can re-create later. > 2. what type of recorder did you use? I have used both reel-to-reel (TEAC A2340-SX) and four-track cassette (TASCAM Porta-05) decks. The narrower the tape used (or the higher the number of recording tracks squeezed in), the greater the odds that you'll have sync interference problems. > 3. what type of sync signal did you use? My sequencer/interface combination only accepts Frequency Shift Keying (FSK) sync. > 4. did you have any noise reduction (Dolby, dbx) enabled on the sync > channel of the tape recorder? The TASCAM Port-Studio series of decks includes a special sync output which bypasses the EQ par of the deck. This allows the signal to go out unprocessed when all the other tracks are being EQed. I don't EQ the sync signal when I'm striping the tape. >The reason I am asking is that I am considering getting one of the >small multitrack cassette recorders and would like to use one of its >channels to record a sync signal from my sequencer (which >unfortunately does not have SMPTE but does have some other non-chasing >sync capabilities). Should work okay once you determine the appropriate recording levels. >I tried using it with my VHS Hi-Fi VCR last night and found that some >of the sync signal (recorded on the right channel) crosstalked into >the other (left) channel of my recorder. Try the recording level trick if you can to see if you can get rid of the crosstalk. >As mentioned above, I am thinking about getting a 4-track cassette, >but would hate to find similar problems with it. > >I would appreciate feedback from anyone having experience with this. > >Thanks, >Al Good Luck! Hope this helps. -- John Boggs McDonnell Douglas Electronic Systems Company McLean, Virginia, USA