chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (10/11/88)
Thanks to everyone who responded on my MIDI questions. The responses are included below for everyone who wanted a copy. A number of people on Compuserve mentiond the MT-240 from Casio, which seems to be a fairly new, low-priced and decent keyboard. It's got full-sized keys, is multi-timbral, and is under $500. That's the one I'm going to research first -- if I decide I don't like it, the next one on my list is the Kawai K1. Again, thanks! chuq ----- From: ossian1@pnet06.cts.com (James A. Von Schmacht) I just picked up apple's midi interface, and a casio ct-460, along with DMCS 2.0, and am having a blast. If you's like to venture into the midi world for less thatn 500 dollers, I suggest that you consider this setup. A definite double-blast. Susan even likes it--the piano SOUNDS like a piano! From: Rob Jellinghaus <jellinghaus-robert@YALE.ARPA> Good luck, Chuq! My estimates for such a system usually run ~$100 for the interface, ~$150 (minimum) for the software, and for any sort of reasonable (i.e. non-toy) keyboard, at least $500. If you want a good cheap keyboard, probably 47th St. Photo is your only chance. If you want quality, you'll be talking $800+ for the keyboard. From: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster) I'd advise the following to anyone starting with MIDI: 1.) an interface 2.) an instrument 3.) a voice editor 4.) a sequencer 5.) a tone generator 6.) a reverb unit 7.) a stand to hold it all. 8.) a 4 track deck - a mini studio 9.) a 2 track dubbing deck 10.) avery laserwriter compatible cassette labels. 11.) good reviews. 12.) customers. 1.) the interface - this supplies electrical isolation and appropriate clock to the mac. A bottom of the line interface will run you about $100.00. You have a choice: Apple's (no eternal power supply, 1 in, 1 out) Opcode's (plug that a.c. adapter into the wall. 1 in, 3 outs, which may save you from buying a MIDI through box at some point.) Passport's (probably similar to opcode's) If you pay more, you get the ability to record new stuff on your MIDI instrument, while synching to tape. (Assuming you have a 4 track deck, with up to three live tracks, and one sync track.) (We haven't gotten to this exalted level yet.) 2.) An instrument. Casio makes some nice cheap ones, decent sound generators and usable keyboards. the cz-101 in particular is very well supported. (It has mini-keys, so if you are a died in the wool pianist, you won't like it.) Casio has some instruments with MIDI in and out for about $250.00. These instruments serve both as a way of getting your performance into your midi setup (keyboard), and letting you hear the result (tone generator). The keyboard isn't the best, for example the keys are small, and don't have the full range of velocity and aftertouch that the more expensive keyboards have. Try one out, and make sure you'll be comfortable playing on it. If you play the guitar, you'll want a MIDI guitar controller. We like the Casio MG510: a stratocaster copy that tracks pretty well if you are willing to accept that it is a MIDI guitar controller, not exactly a guitar. Casio also makes a cheap MIDI horn input, but it looks like a toy, so if your macho image is important to you, stay away. Otherwise, give it a try in the store to make certain you'll be comfortable making music on it. 3.) Since most tone generators have really lousy interfaces to their synthesizer functions, I'd recommend a decent WYSWIG voice editor. Opcode makes some good ones. The Digital Music Service TX81z editor is usable. I'd advise not buying a tone generator unless you can get decent voice editor software for it. The mac is a great librarian for voices. I keep parallel ACTA files, to my voice files, that describe the voices, so I can search and find a likely voice fast. 4.) Up to this point, you are playing your synth, or playing the MIDI controller of your choice and hearing it on your synth. You are using the Mac for voice editing/librarian, and recording onto your current tape deck. The next step, depending on how multi-timbril your tone generators are, is sequencer software. Remember going from a manual typewriter to a word processor? That is the step of going from a traditional tape recorder to a sequencer. Cut and paste, easy punch in/punch out, many tracks, and speed controls that work on the tempo, but leave the pitch alone, and easy transposition, are all features of sequencer software. We bought MasterTracks Pro. Other people like Professional Composer, but it has too many numbers for my more graphically oriented musician wife. 5.) Once you have sequencer software, you'll want to get that rich, poly- phonic sound. There is a tension between buying more synths like you've already got, so you will be able to use your existing voice editing software, and buying different synths to tap into a wider range of sounds. We bought a yamaha tx81z becuase it seemed like good value for money. the yamaha fb01 is also a good choice. 6.) The synth sounds seemed too electronic. Adding a Alesis midiveb helped. this reverb unit makes the sound much more natural. 7.) A decent stand to hold all this stuff. So you can conveniently reach everything. 8.) once you have all the above, you'll want to record onto a 4 track deck so you can do complex mixing and overdubbing, and build up a rich sound. MIDI is fine, but you can't record tracks of acoustic instruments, nor lyrics on it. Since the 4-track cassette decks record at double speed, they are not compatible with home, consumer decks. 9.) now, you've got something that sounds nice, you'll need a high quality dubbing stereo cassette deck to create a master, so you can duplicate cassettes for your friends. 10.) avery makes laserwriter compatible cassette labels. You can print cassette outer covers on card stock, and the a. and b. side labels on these avery labels. 11.) Now, you've got your music on tapes that you can sell. Next you need good reviews. My wife, Leigh Ann Hussey,'s tape _Pantheon_ got rave reviews in the May '88 issue of _Electronic Musician_. 12.) Customers. _Pantheon_ is available for $9.50 postpaid from Leigh Ann Hussey 2240 Blake #308 Berkeley, CA 94704. That about sums it up. For non-midi mac music software: We also use Studio Session, which gives you 6 voice polyphony sampled sound (and you can use about a hundred different samples in a singlhece.) about $60.00, and it uses the Mac for output. Input is entering sheet music with the mouse, in the best sheet music entry editor I've seen. Piped through the MIDIverb, it sounds great. The version we have is slightly incompatible with the Mac II: you'll need to reboot if you try to quit on a Mac II, but everything else works. Deluxe Music Construction Set is a good value for printing music. It is funky. You have to coax it to print a page, but it will let you produce a decent page of typeset music. I don't know about Mac II compatibility for most of this stuff as we use a MacPlus as our music mac. From: dlv059@Mipl3.JPL.Nasa.Gov I, too, am a MIDI beginner. I bought an Apple MIDI interface for $100, and Concertware+MIDI for $72 from MacConnection. I have not yet bought a keyboard (I've borrowed one for a few projects) but have spotted what I want, I think; a Yamaha that goes for about $200 and has *everything* on it that I can think of except full-sized keys. MIDI keyboards have recently undergone a tremendous drop in price; less than a year ago the cheapest MIDI-capable keyboard was around $500 and would only run four channels; this Yamaha does 16. So I'm being patient and watching the prices come down and the number of features go up. Anyway, I'm very happy with Concertware+MIDI; it does eight channels and I don't have time to write for more :-). I wish it could "record" a little more accurately, but then I'm not much of a keyboard artist anyway. From: Jon W. Backstrom <viking@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> I'd tell you what to get, but you were mean to me: > The Mac as 'cheap commodity for all us poor folks' is a Fantasy created > by those who want it. It's not Apple's dream, and never has been. *I* didn't say that Apple's 'machine for the rest of us' was based on price-point, but that's for another discussion...ahem. :-) Seriously, though, it may be hard to come in with a good system that costs under $1000, but here's my choices for building a capable system that just happens to cost a reasonable amount of money. 1) The MIDI interface: Personally, I use Passport Design's MIDI Transport, but this device provides far more than you'll need (for $495, you get multiple MIDI inputs/outputs and SMPTE code generation and sync capability). For your purpose, I see two options: o Opcode's Professional Plus (one MIDI in and three MIDI outs for future expansion). $150 list (~$120 discounted). o Apple's own MIDI interface (cheap and does the job). $99 list. 2) The sequencing software: Do you want to play live to enter music or would you rather enter music manually and have the synth play the results of your editing? This question is important to answer before picking the type of MIDI software you might wish to use. o Opcodes Sequencer 2.6 is a good system for playing music live and sequencing compositions. (You can also print your music using Transcription links to Electronic Art's Deluxe Music Construction Set.) $150 list (~$120 discounted) o Speaking of the Deluxe Music Construction Set, this system is *great* for entering sheet music graphically and playing it back via MIDI. $100 list (~$80 discounted) o Finally, Passport's Master Tracks Pro is pricy, but lets you edit both graphically and via live playing. It's my current favorite software and will also let you print sheet music using the Deluxe Music Construction Set. $395 list (~300 discounted). The Synthesizer: Once again, having chosen whether to play live or edit, you can decide what hardware to use. I own a lot of Yamaha and Roland equipment and I can recommend two systems very highly: >The Roland D-10 keyboard for playing live. $977 from Sam Ash >The Roland D-110 module for playing edited music. $697 from Sam Ash Both of these systems are 'complete' in that they can play a total of 32 voice polyphony, they are 8 voice multi-timbral, and a drum machine is built in. The D-10 includes a keyboard for live playing and the D-110 is my choice as the perfect MIDI sound module. Both are basically enhanced MT-32's (which is *another* possibility...it just doesn't sound as nice. $695 list...probably $487 at Sam Ash) IN SUMMARY ---------- The cheapest system, sequence only: List Normal Price Price ------ ------ Apple MIDI Interface $ 99 $ 90 Roland MT-32 Multi-Timbral Synth Module $ 695 $ 487 Deluxe Music Construction Set $ 100 $ 80 ------ ------ $ 894 $ 650 A *better* system, sequence only: List Normal Price Price ------ ------ Apple MIDI Interface $ 99 $ 90 Roland D-110 Multi-Timbral Synth Module $ 995 $ 697 Deluxe Music Construction Set $ 100 $ 80 ------ ------ $1184 $ 867 A good system, for keyboard playing: List Normal Price Price ------ ------ Apple MIDI Interface $ 99 $ 90 Roland D-10 Multi-Timbral Synth Keyboard $1395 $ 697 Opcode Sequencer 2.6 $ 150 $ 120 Deluxe Music Construction Set $ 100 $ 80 (For manual editing) ------ ------ $1744 $1267 To be sure, there are cheaper ways to go (such as a used keyboard synth), but if you're starting from scratch and you want a synth that is cheap and will do *everything* (drums and multiple sounds with nice reverb built-in) and you want your investment to last for a long time, check out the D-10 keyboard or the D-110 module. From: decwrl!ucbvax!att!mhuxu!mls > o MIDI interface Apple's is perfectly OK > o a Keyboard Casio CZ-101 (cheap!) > o MIDI software to run on the Mac. ConcertWare+MIDI This is an amazingly powerful setup for about $300 (depending on how cheap you can get the CZ-101; try mail order from 47th St. photo.) The only quibbles are that the CZ has tiny keys, so the keyboard is not very practical for real-time performance (though lots of street musicians have got used to it!) and it puts out mono sound, not stereo. From: nosun!cvedc!austin (Austin Avrashow) I have put together a quality system for minimal bucks. I'm a guitarist who never played keyboards, but I bought a Casio MT240 keyboard with MIDI in/out/thru, full-sized keys, velocity-sensitivity (press the key soft, it sounds soft), and a few buttons for instruments preset (piano, harpsichord, organ, vibraphone). Cost $400 (no rhythm patterns, but I wanted piano-like features, you see. I already owned Deluxe Music Construction Set, cost $60, An excellent value. I used it to "draw" the sheet music I wasn't familiar with and have the Mac play it for me (no keyboard needed!). With the keyboard, I can play back DMCS scores through the MIDI interface to the Casio. It's not a real-time recorder (sequencer) program, but it does let you play notes or chords and it places the notes in the score. You hold the note(s) down longer for notes longer than the default duration you set. It's a bargain. I use the Apple MIDI interface because I don't want an extra power chord or transformer to plug it. It's already a jungle. After one month of learning keyboard, I put a few simple chord progressions into DMCS, played them back with "Repeat Play" set and "MIDI input" disabled and jammed with my melodies, adding the light high notes or thumpy bass patterns. I was impressed. From: hplabs!hpda!uunet!iconsys!tom (Tom Kimpton) > o MIDI interface OpCode Professional Plus (In,Out,Thru) $95 (mine connects to an SE, I believe they have one for the Ke) > o a Keyboard Akai MX-73 MIDI controller ~$450 -- 73 full size keys, touch sensitive -- 4 zone MIDI split each zone individually transposable (+/- 2 octave) -- pedal control jacks 1 sustain 4 w/sliders assignable to MIDI controllers 64-95 (I think it's 95) 4 switches 1 control change -- pitch bend wheel -- sostenutu wheel -- 100 configuration memories NOTE: This is a *controller*. It has no sound module built in. Akai makes a model with built-in sound module called AX-73, for about $100 more. I have a Yamaha FB-01 FM synthesis module that I bought used for about $200, and a Roland MT-32 digital synthesis module used for $400. The sound modules have line outputs that I have sent to a mixer, and then into a tape input on a stereo. A setup of this kind is the height of flexibility, and is actually quite price competitive. I am really pleased with the keyboard. > o MIDI software to run on the Mac. MidiPaint $135 16 channels 999 measures record from MIDI channel step time input quantized input lavish tool pallete NOTE: this program requires MIDI I/O, it will not play through the speaker. To enter music you record from a keyboard, or paint it on the screen, vertical = note horizontal = duration. Somewhat buggy/idiosyncratic but eminently usable. I know of Deluxe Music Construction Set 2.0. It has a traditional music interface, i.e. you enter in notes onto a music staff. Thus you need to read music. I have it but it doesn't work on my SE, and I haven't gotten it exchanged so I can delve into it further. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Editor/Publisher, OtherRealms