chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (08/19/88)
I certainly don't want to get into a long running discussion on this, but a couple of further clarifications: >but I was under the impression that you couldn't copyright >FACTS. Facts, no. If you want to generate your own Chalker bibliography, you're more than welcome to. Chalker, on the other hand, wrote up the bibliography, and he has the right to control who uses that specific bibliography. The facts are not protected, but the given implementation of those facts are. >In the case of a bibliography, any commentary, introductions, >etc. could be copyrighted, but the names and information would be free >game. True. For instance, another sf-lovers person-type posted a list of titles that he got from the bibliography from Dance Band on the Titanic (which was an earlier version of the bibliography I published, for what it's worth). He published only the titles, not the commentary and other information that was in my Chalker bibliography. There's no specific problem there because the facts aren't under control and Chalker's rights weren't violated. (Since you missed the initial posting, the Chalker bibliography WAS full of commentary and other personal information, and that's the primary reason why all this screaming about copyright is being done. If it was *just* a list of titles, nobody would have cared. But it was copyrighted, and the copyright was violated, and that's all that really matters. Nitpicking about semantics about whether or not the thing *should* have been copyrighted is beside the point. Federal and international copyright law doesn't deal in content or ethereal things like "good" and "bad" writing. >Correct me if I'm wrong. Any lawyer types out there? I'm not a lawyer, but I've had the 'pleasure' of studying copyrights, especially computer copyright, for a long time because of my association with USENET. I've talked to a number of lawyers over the years about it, especially since my publication of OtherRealms makes it critical that I understand it and not screw it up. So I've got what I feel is a good basis for what I say. As a completely unrelated (mostly) comment, in my long involvement with various nets -- Arpa back in the Good old days, USENET, various commercial systems and bulletin boards -- I've never seen an organization so cavalier with the laws of the land. This is the third copyright hassle I've gotten involved in on USENET. I could name at least half a dozen more as well. The general reaction I see when I point out things like copyright or other legal problems is "who cares? We don't need to worry about it." The person who breaks the law doesn't get yelled at -- the person who tries to point out the problem does. This is going to come back to get the net some day. It isn't just the fact that the violations occur. That happens. But USENET is tolerant of the violations, and a small but noticable minority actively promotes this kind of stuff (at least, from the mail I've gotten). And one of these days, the net's going to run into someone who isn't going to settle for an "I'm sorry" and is going to push the issue. Think hard about the legal and ethical differences, if any, of people who post proprietary code or copyrighted material to USENET and people who post pirated programs or stolen credit card numbers to the pirate BBSes the FBI loves to shut down. USENET can do whatever it wants, include get itself into deep legal liability. I stopped trying to 'fix' the net long ago, because it was obvious to me the net didn't want or appreciate 'fixing'. All I ask is that if you want to screw about with copyrighted material, do it with someone else's. I have a legal obligation to my writers and to my magazine to protect the copyright -- and if you break it and I find out, you're going to hear from me. The situation is easily avoidable. Don't violate copyrights. In almost three years of publishing OtherRealms, this is the first problem we've had. Hopefully, it'll be the last. This discussion no longer has ANYTHING to do with science fiction, so I've re-directed it to news.misc. If anyone wants to discuss it further, let's do it over there and not interrupt the dan'l-weemba wars more than we have to. chuq editor/publisher, OtherRealms. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Join Halofacon -- vote for Sri-Lanka in 2001! Heywood Floyd for GoH!