rjnoe@riccb.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) (02/15/86)
This article is cross-posted to net.news.group and net.columbia. Followups should go ONLY to net.news.group. > Sigh. A shuttle blows up, and in a week, half the traffic in the > appropriate newsgroup is on what to call the newsgroup. Sigh. > > Alan Silverstein Does that surprise you? It was because the newsgroup had a bad name to begin with. It should have been net.space.shuttle from the very beginning. Just think - how silly is it to name a newsgroup net.mimd instead of net.arch? Or net.struct instead of net.lang.c? But no, it was named for sentimental reasons net.columbia. This led to all kinds of misunderstandings when it came to people wanting to know if there was even a newsgroup for space shuttle articles or if net.columbia was meant entirely for discussions of the make-up of Columbia River. With a sentimental (as opposed to rational) name like net.columbia, it was inevitable that someone would suggest renaming it net.challenger, also for sentimental reasons. In fact, I think the first suggestion of that type was posted the very day of the explosion. And then followed a torrent of postings from net readers saying "count this as my vote for changing net.columbia to net.challenger." Much, if not all, of this could have been avoided if it had been named net.space.shuttle from the beginning. I and others suggested several times long before the Challenger accident that the name should be net.space.shuttle. This movement never got enough support to accomplish the name change. I appeal now, on rational grounds, to all readers of net.columbia who are irritated by the flood of postings of the "net.challenger" type: LET'S CHANGE THE NAME OF net.columbia TO net.space.shuttle ! I think the advantages of this name change far outweigh any claimed dif- ficulties from such a change. And suggestions that net.challenger is a fitting memorial or that net.columbia was to honor the first space shuttle just don't hold any rational water. Even net.enterprise would have made a more reasonable name than net.columbia. (And it can never be destroyed in space.) But let's make things right and make it, once and for all, net.space.shuttle. -- Roger Noe ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe
dww@stl.UUCP (David Wright) (02/18/86)
In article <628@riccb.UUCP> rjnoe@riccb.UUCP writes: >But let's make things right and make it, once >and for all, net.space.shuttle. >-- Yes. 1 vote `for'.
inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) (02/20/86)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** *** CATCH THIS ONE TOO WILL YOU BUSTER? *** > I and others suggested several times long before the Challenger accident > that the name should be net.space.shuttle. This movement never got enough > support to accomplish the name change. I appeal now, on rational grounds, > to all readers of net.columbia who are irritated by the flood of postings > of the "net.challenger" type: > LET'S CHANGE THE NAME OF net.columbia TO net.space.shuttle ! > I think the advantages of this name change far outweigh any claimed dif- > ficulties from such a change. > -- > Roger Noe ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe Get off it. You make a good point for reason and rationality in a computer network that is *FAR* from rational. Sure logic is great, but it isn't *EVERYTHING* for crying out loud! Take a break, partner. I like a little sentimentality now and again. It's kind of cozy, you know? -- Gary Benson * John Fluke Mfg. Co. * PO Box C9090 * Everett WA * 98206 MS/232-E = = {allegra} {uw-beaver} !fluke!inc = = (206)356-5367 _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-ascii is our god and unix is his profit-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
jer@peora.UUCP (J. Eric Roskos) (02/20/86)
> > Sigh. A shuttle blows up, and in a week, half the traffic in the > > appropriate newsgroup is on what to call the newsgroup. Sigh. > > Does that surprise you? It was because the newsgroup had a bad name > to begin with... > I and others suggested several times long before the Challenger accident > that the name should be net.space.shuttle. This movement never got enough > support to accomplish the name change. I appeal now, on rational grounds, > to all readers of net.columbia who are irritated by the flood of postings > of the "net.challenger" type ... The discussions would have gone on anyway; people would have said, "I think it is a fitting memorial to rename net.space.shuttle to net.space.challenger" and all the postings would have occurred. Rather, it is the handful of people who are dissatisfied with the name who provoked a lot of the annoying discussion; it is one thing to have to go through myriads of votes for and against renaming the newsgroup, but quite another to have the Challenger tragedy exploited by a few who want to foist their ideas of what the newsgroup should be named on those who were participating in it long before the tragedy, and who were quite satisfied with the name. The arguments over the name are quite fundamentally the same as the arguments for and against the colonization of space. Naming the newsgroup "net.columbia" involves a matter of sentiment and "nostalgia," as well as an awareness and appreciation of etymology -- the question ``why is the newsgroup called net.columbia'' being an essentially etymological question in itself. Some people want to colonize space; some people want to stay here. Some people want to call it net.challenger; some want to call it net.space.shuttle. You have to base your decision on what the people who use the newsgroup want; and it is very evident that the people who post the "change the newsgroup name" requests are not the same ones who post the majority of the discussion in net.columbia. We've been over and over this issue before. There's nothing wrong with the name. Someone who can speak English, with all its idiosyncrasies, certainly should be able to deal with an idiosyncratic newsgroup name. It's what makes the language interesting. -- UUCP: Ofc: jer@peora.UUCP Home: jer@jerpc.CCUR.UUCP CCUR DNS: peora, pesnta US Mail: MS 795; CONCURRENT Computer Corp. SDC; (A Perkin-Elmer Company) 2486 Sand Lake Road, Orlando, FL 32809-7642
phoenix@genat.UUCP (phoenix) (02/24/86)
In article <757@tpvax.fluke.UUCP> inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) writes: > >*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** >*** CATCH THIS ONE TOO WILL YOU BUSTER? *** > >> I and others suggested several times long before the Challenger accident >> that the name should be net.space.shuttle. This movement never got enough >> support to accomplish the name change. I appeal now, on rational grounds, >> to all readers of net.columbia who are irritated by the flood of postings >> of the "net.challenger" type: >> LET'S CHANGE THE NAME OF net.columbia TO net.space.shuttle ! >> I think the advantages of this name change far outweigh any claimed dif- >> ficulties from such a change. >> -- >> Roger Noe ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe > > >Get off it. You make a good point for reason and rationality in a computer >network that is *FAR* from rational. Sure logic is great, but it isn't >*EVERYTHING* for crying out loud! > >Take a break, partner. I like a little sentimentality now and again. It's >kind of cozy, you know? > > >-- > Gary Benson * John Fluke Mfg. Co. * PO Box C9090 * Everett WA * 98206 > MS/232-E = = {allegra} {uw-beaver} !fluke!inc = = (206)356-5367 > _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-ascii is our god and unix is his profit-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Before the explosion, I would have been in favour of "net.enterprise" rather than "net.columbia" (well, it *was* the first one, wasn't it? or did I miss something...)(I saw her flight over Toronto a while back; it still gives me shivers...). I now support any name that is *not* net.space.shuttle. That name, compared with the others is essentially sterile, devoid of emotional content; and I, for one, am *very* emotional about space-travel, space exploration, space colonization, the Final Frontier, etc., etc. "Out there...thataway!" -- The Phoenix (Neither Bright, Dark, nor Young) ---"A man should live forever...or die trying." ---"There is no substitute for good manners...except fast reflexes."
rjnoe@riccb.UUCP (Roger J. Noe) (02/25/86)
In article <1975@peora.UUCP> J. Eric Roskos writes: > The discussions would have gone on anyway; people would have said, "I think > it is a fitting memorial to rename net.space.shuttle to net.space.challenger" > and all the postings would have occurred. I disagree. The change to net.challenger was first proposed BECAUSE the newsgroup was already named after another shuttle orbiter vehicle. Had it been generically named net.space.shuttle such ideas would probably never have been publicly expressed and even if they had, probably would not have gotten the (temporary) popular support the net.columbia->net.challenger name change had. But then neither of us is going to be able to PROVE that such postings would or would not have occurred. > Rather, it is the handful of people who are dissatisfied with the name who > provoked a lot of the annoying discussion; it is one thing to have to go > through myriads of votes for and against renaming the newsgroup, but quite > another to have the Challenger tragedy exploited by a few who want to > foist their ideas of what the newsgroup should be named on those who were > participating in it long before the tragedy, and who were quite satisfied > with the name. Since I am dissatisfied with the name net.columbia, I assume you are lumping me in with the people who "provoked a lot of the annoying discussion." Actually, the only things I found annoying were the hundreds of votes posted. There were maybe a half dozen well thought out articles, both in net.columbia and net.news.group, calmly discussing the pro's and con's of such a name change. I contributed a two-line article suggesting that no name change take place until people had calmed down a bit and talked about the matter a while. The only thing that was "annoying" was the sheer volume of "yes, let's do it"/"no, let's not" variety. This was all provoked by one off-hand comment and it snowballed. Just WHO is exploiting the Challenger tragedy? WHO are the "few who want to foist their ideas of what the newsgroup should be named on those who were participating in it long before the tragedy, and who were quite satisfied with the name?" Certainly you can't mean lil' ol' me! As I posted in the article which was being followed up, "I and others suggested several times long before the Challenger accident that the name should be net.space. shuttle." It is only because it seems inevitable that the newsgroup will be renamed that I feel this should be brought to everyone's attention again. And, judging by the heap of positive responses to my previous posting, I'd say we're not a few. Nor are we "foisting" our ideas on others. We're observing proper netiquette by stating our position and the reasons behind it in the appropriate forum. Rather, it is some of the net.challenger proponents who are "foisting" their choice of a newsgroup name on others. The net.challenger newsgroup was created within days of its proposal, without proper discussion beforehand, by one of these people. THIS is what I call exploiting the Challenger tragedy! Roskos also seems to equate being satisfied with the name "net.columbia" and participating in the newsgroup for a long time before the tragedy. Clearly, they are not the same. I've been posting intelligent, informative articles (at least, I think they are) to net.columbia for over three years. When Adam Buchsbaum could no longer post wire service summaries because he left for school, I think I might have been the only one who volunteered to take over this task for him and keep net.columbia readers informed. I can remember WEEKS (plural!) of time when I was the only one posting to net.columbia. I know what I'm talking about and I know that the arguments I have advanced are sound. I also know that there is a lot of popular support for this name change. I'd like to see some postings or mail discussing the disadvantages of changing a newsgroup name. I've heard claims that it's difficult or costly in some respects and I'd be very interested in hearing why this is. If it's true, then maybe the name shouldn't change at all. But it's pretty clear that the net.challenger name has virtually no serious support any more. > . . . You have to base your decision on what the people who use the > newsgroup want . . . . Quite right. And just who is going to be using the newsgroup when the furor over the tragedy dies down? I guarantee I'll be one of them. I've contributed more to net.columbia than I have to the entire remainder of USENET newsgroups over the past few years and I'm going to continue that pattern as long as I have access to USENET. > We've been over and over this issue before. There's nothing wrong with > the name. Someone who can speak English, with all it idiosyncrasies, > certainly should be able to deal with an idiosyncratic newsgroup name. > It's what makes the language interesting. And it's what makes USENET a pain in the neck. Such "let them eat idiosyncrasies" attitudes have no place on this multinational network. The fact is that the name net.columbia HAS caused significant problems in the past. Anyone who has truly participated in USENET for a couple years would know this. In addition to me, Roger Long (felix!bytebug) is apparently taking a poll on what to do with net.columbia. I urge him to post to net.news.group so others (and I) can get a path to him. I'll continue to accept and tally opinions mailed to me for future summary. Please, if you net-readers have any opinion on the matter at all, I encourage responses mailed to me at riccb!rjnoe. May the will of the net be done. -- Roger Noe ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe
msc@saber.UUCP (Mark Callow) (02/26/86)
> In article <635@riccb.UUCP> riccb!rjnoe (roger Noe) writes: > > The fact is that the name net.columbia HAS caused significant problems > in the past. Anyone who has truly participated in USENET for a couple > years would know this. > I have actively participated in usenet since late 1981 and have been reader of net.columbia since its creation. The only problem that the name net.columbia has caused in the entire history of the group is the incessant discussions that it should be changed. Nobody has ever (as far as I can recall) actually posted an article asking if this group has to do with Columbia University (one of the most frequently suggested potential confusions). I have vague memories of maybe one article posted there as a result of someone's confusion. If there had been "significant problems", I would certainly remember them. Will you all please cease and desist. Just before the Challenger tragedy there was another round of discussions on this and even a vote. We decided to keep the name net.columbia. I think those in favour of net.space.shuttle are just trying to wear us all down by bringing the name change up at every possible opportunity. -- From the TARDIS of Mark Callow msc@saber.uucp, sun!saber!msc@decwrl.dec.com ...{ihnp4,sun}!saber!msc "Boards are long and hard and made of wood"
cccjack@ucdavis.UUCP (Jack Ogawa) (03/02/86)
> [.....] > > LET'S CHANGE THE NAME OF net.columbia TO net.space.shuttle ! > I think the advantages of this name change far outweigh any claimed dif- > ficulties from such a change. And suggestions that net.challenger is > a fitting memorial or that net.columbia was to honor the first space > shuttle just don't hold any rational water. Even net.enterprise would > have made a more reasonable name than net.columbia. (And it can never > be destroyed in space.) But let's make things right and make it, once > and for all, net.space.shuttle. > -- > Roger Noe ihnp4!riccb!rjnoe I agree. net.space.shuttle is a more fitting name to a news group that concerns itself with the shuttle program in general, rather than any particular shuttle!
dave@pta.OZ (Dave Horsfall) (03/05/86)
While we're on the subject of renaming net groups, this seems to be a good time to think about renaming net.* to world.* ... Thus would reflect the true cosmopolitan nature of the network, and force Americans to realise that net.* is not just usa.*. (1/2 * :-)) Any takers? //SYSIN DD * Dave Horsfall VK2KFU ISD: +61 2 438-1266 VTL: 248181000 Lionel Singer Group STD: (02) 438-1266 20 Waltham St ARPA: munnari!pta.oz!dave@SEISMO Artarmon NSW 2064 UUCP: seismo!munnari!pta.oz!dave AUSTRALIA ACS: dave@pta, dave@elecvax, dave@runx
barb@oliven.UUCP (Barbara Jernigan) (03/07/86)
> I now support any name that is *not* net.space.shuttle. That > name, compared with the others is essentially sterile, devoid of emotional > content.... And bound to give me finger-cramps ;-)
bzs@bu-cs.UUCP (Barry Shein) (03/14/86)
>While we're on the subject of renaming net groups, this seems >to be a good time to think about renaming net.* to world.* ... >Thus would reflect the true cosmopolitan nature of the network, >and force Americans to realise that net.* is not just usa.*. (1/2 * :-)) > >Any takers? > >//SYSIN DD * >Dave Horsfall I dunno Dave, we do that and before you know it the Arcturans will be screaming to make it galaxy.* and we'll be going thru this whole thing all over again... -Barry Shein, Boston University For Sale: Zimglup, hardly used, will deliver in Rigel area, 4,000 Nongs firm.
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (03/16/86)
>> I now support any name that is *not* net.space.shuttle. That >> name, compared with the others is essentially sterile, devoid of emotional >> content.... Actually, there is a slight problem with names other than net.space.shuttle that I haven't seen mentioned before. People post to net.space when they can't figure out where to put shuttle news. I find the only name with much emotional content is net.challenger, and the other names equal in emotional content. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720