jtrim@udenva.cair.du.edu (Jeff Trim) (08/21/88)
Sorry if I posting this message in the worng group -- but I remembered an old
discussion on here about "The Ultimate BBS" question (and it eventually was
decided that UNIX was the Ultimate BBS :-) so my question is:
If you are running BSD Unix 4.[2][3] -- do you have to have a Vax/Microvax?
Is it possible to bring BSD down to a PC (yeah -- I know.. try not to laugh
to hard about this question -- even though it sounds a little primative
:-) ;-). What is the MINIMUM Hardware??
For Internet Socketing (TCP) what do you need as far as Hardware. I guess
my real question is -- what is the minimum Harware needed for Internet??
(IE the ability to use "telnet", "rlogin", "rsh", etc??) Is this network
cabled together or how it is all hooked up?
As a user it's all transparent to me -- so I don't know the full Harware/
Software needs for this Network. I just take it for granted that if I
mail a message to an INTERNET address -- it will get there (most of the
time :-) -- even though their UNIX may *not* be listed in our /etc/hosts
file!
Thanx! --- and hope I posted this to the right Newsgroup!
- Jeff Trim
The University of Denver
DOMAIN: jtrim@cair.du.edu "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged
BITNET: JTRIM@DUCAIR phaser bank.."
USENET: { ncar,nbires,onecom }!udenva!jtrim -LCMD Scott
(or) { ihnp4, smu, codas }!killer!macman vixie@decwrl.dec.com (Paul Vixie) (08/22/88)
[ This ends very differently than you'd imagine. I made the mistake of replying as I went instead of reading the whole original article to see what was really wanted. Some of my comments are still worth reading :-), though this is a very strange place to put them. --vix ] # Is it possible to bring BSD down to a PC (yeah -- I know.. try not to laugh # to (sic) hard about this question -- even though it sounds a little primative # :-) ;-). What is the MINIMUM Hardware?? You need a system with 32-bit memory addresses and a paged MMU. You could probably make BSD 2.9 or even 2.10 run on a PC with 16-bit memory addressing and a segmented MMU, but full 4.3BSD just plain needs a lot of room. This means: a 386 machine. A standard 386 with 4MB of memory, some serial ports, monochrome video (unless you want to write an X11 server, which, unless you know what I mean, you don't want to do), an 80MB hard drive, and whatever floppies or tape you want. An ethernet board would help if you've got somebody to talk to. BUT: There Is No Such Thing. Other than a version of SunOS that was done for the Compaq 386 to help build Sun's Roadrunner, BSD doesn't run on your average 386 box. Sun doesn't think it's in the software business, I guess, since they have no interest in selling their Compaq port. BUT: with GCC now able to generate code for the 386 (FP support coming soon, I hope), This Could Be Done. All you need is a BSD system to do the devel- opment on, a 386 system to try your code out on, a $40,000.00 source license from AT&T (BSD was based on AT&T code), John Gilmore's ANSI-compliant hacks to the BSD source tree, a great deal of hair on your head (so you can pull it all out while you work), and someone else to pay your rent and buy your food for about six months. I hope someone is working on this, I really do. But so far, your options for PC-style machines are: Xenix and SysV/386. Not much of a choice, I admit. Want to buy a Symmetric 375 real cheap? :-) [sort of] # For Internet Socketing (TCP) what do you need as far as Hardware. I guess # my real question is -- what is the minimum Harware needed for Internet?? # (IE the ability to use "telnet", "rlogin", "rsh", etc??) Is this network # cabled together or how it is all hooked up? Ah. You can get the normal "R-utilities" and a socket library from several vendors, and plug it into a 386 running Microport, Bell Tech, ISC 386/ix, Xenix, etc. You'll only be missing: fast file system, symbolic links, filenames over 14 characters; job control; smart TTY driver that knows how to: delete words, delete tabs instead of just backing up one space, avoid backing up over your prompt; etc. (This list goes on endlessly.) # As a user it's all transparent to me -- so I don't know the full Harware/ # Software needs for this Network. I just take it for granted that if I # mail a message to an INTERNET address -- it will get there (most of the # time :-) -- even though their UNIX may *not* be listed in our /etc/hosts # file! Ah, again. You don't need TCP to send mail. UUCP from a primitive machine is quite capable of sending mail which will ultrimately land on some site on the Internet. But it looks from your Message-ID as though you are already on the Internet in some capacity -- so what's the real problem? -- Paul Vixie Digital Equipment Corporation Work: vixie@dec.com Play: paul@vixie.UUCP Western Research Laboratory uunet!decwrl!vixie uunet!vixie!paul Palo Alto, California, USA +1 415 853 6600 +1 415 864 7013
dss227@tijc02.UUCP (Debra Steffey ) (09/01/88)
> [ This ends very differently than you'd imagine. I made the mistake of > replying as I went instead of reading the whole original article to see > what was really wanted. Some of my comments are still worth reading :-), > though this is a very strange place to put them. --vix ] > > # Is it possible to bring BSD down to a PC (yeah -- I know.. try not to laugh > # to (sic) hard about this question -- even though it sounds a little primative ZZ > > You need a system with 32-bit memory addresses and a paged MMU. You could > probably make BSD 2.9 or even 2.10 run on a PC with 16-bit memory addressing > and a segmented MMU, but full 4.3BSD just plain needs a lot of room. > > This means: a 386 machine. A standard 386 with 4MB of memory, some serial > ports, monochrome video (unless you want to write an X11 server, which, > unless you know what I mean, you don't want to do), an 80MB hard drive, > and whatever floppies or tape you want. An ethernet board would help if > you've got somebody to talk to. > > BUT: There Is No Such Thing. Other than a version of SunOS that was done > for the Compaq 386 to help build Sun's Roadrunner, BSD doesn't run on your > average 386 box. Sun doesn't think it's in the software business, I guess, > since they have no interest in selling their Compaq port. > > BUT: with GCC now able to generate code for the 386 (FP support coming soon, > I hope), This Could Be Done. All you need is a BSD system to do the devel- > opment on, a 386 system to try your code out on, a $40,000.00 source license > from AT&T (BSD was based on AT&T code), John Gilmore's ANSI-compliant hacks > to the BSD source tree, a great deal of hair on your head (so you can pull > it all out while you work), and someone else to pay your rent and buy your > food for about six months. > > I hope someone is working on this, I really do. But so far, your options > for PC-style machines are: Xenix and SysV/386. Not much of a choice, I > admit. Want to buy a Symmetric 375 real cheap? :-) [sort of] > > # For Internet Socketing (TCP) what do you need as far as Hardware. I guess > # my real question is -- what is the minimum Harware needed for Internet?? > # (IE the ability to use "telnet", "rlogin", "rsh", etc??) Is this network > # cabled together or how it is all hooked up? > > Ah. You can get the normal "R-utilities" and a socket library from several > vendors, and plug it into a 386 running Microport, Bell Tech, ISC 386/ix, > Xenix, etc. You'll only be missing: > > fast file system, symbolic links, filenames over 14 characters; > job control; smart TTY driver that knows how to: delete words, > delete tabs instead of just backing up one space, avoid backing > up over your prompt; etc. (This list goes on endlessly.) > > # As a user it's all transparent to me -- so I don't know the full Harware/ > # Software needs for this Network. I just take it for granted that if I > # mail a message to an INTERNET address -- it will get there (most of the > # time :-) -- even though their UNIX may *not* be listed in our /etc/hosts > # file! > > Ah, again. You don't need TCP to send mail. UUCP from a primitive machine > is quite capable of sending mail which will ultrimately land on some site > on the Internet. But it looks from your Message-ID as though you are > already on the Internet in some capacity -- so what's the real problem? > -- > Paul Vixie > Digital Equipment Corporation Work: vixie@dec.com Play: paul@vixie.UUCP > Western Research Laboratory uunet!decwrl!vixie uunet!vixie!paul > Palo Alto, California, USA +1 415 853 6600 +1 415 864 7013 *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***