[news.groups] childish and insulting behavior

larry@kitty.UUCP (10/03/87)

In article <2945@phri.UUCP>, roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes:
> In <558@cc6.bbn.com.BBN.COM> arodwin@cc6.bbn.com.UUCP (Andrew Rodwin) writes:
> > I am posting this here to curb this individual's behavior by public
> > humiliation. [...] Does anyone know [...]  who to contact at Rutgers to
> > have his/her computer account terminated because of misuse?
> ... 
> 	There is a whole other question regarding whether "squealing" to a
> site administrator about the behavior of somebody at that site is the right
> thing to do.  I think it is, but lots of people think it is not.

	Well, *I* certainly agree with Roy Smith.  System administrators
and the site organizations themselves share legal responsibility for the
actions of their users who send mail and post Usenet articles.  The time
is long overdue for someone to "test" this issue.

<>  Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York
<>  UUCP:  {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry
<>  VOICE: 716/688-1231       {hplabs|ihnp4|mtune|seismo|utzoo}!/
<>  FAX:   716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes}   "Have you hugged your cat today?" 

jwl@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (James Wilbur Lewis) (10/03/87)

In article <2064@kitty.UUCP> larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) writes:
>
>System administrators
>and the site organizations themselves share legal responsibility for the
>actions of their users who send mail and post Usenet articles.  The time
>is long overdue for someone to "test" this issue.

This may or may not be currently be the case, but I would argue that 
system administrators and owners should have no such responsibility, 
which should rest totally in the hands of the people sending mail and
posting articles.  

I don't relish the prospect of having all my outgoing mail screened by
my U.C. Berkeley officials in an effort to avoid legal difficulties, any
more than I'd like having the U.S. Postal Service screening my paper
mail for the same purpose.   Why should UCB be held responsible for
anything I say in private electronic communication, or for providing me
with the resources to disseminate my opinions (distasteful as some people
are likely to find them) via Usenet?

We've got a WONDERFUL thing going with the current system, namely the fact that
it's not regulated by government bureaucrats.  Let's keep it that way!  If
you're sufficiently exasperated with the level of discourse here on the net,
you're free to leave, start one of your own, and regulate it however you see
fit.  My stubborn Libertarian streak compels me to say "Mind your own store,
bub, and leave the rest of us alone!"   Especially considering your own
rather mean-spirited behaviour in another newsgroup of late....or is that
your way of "testing" this issue?

-- Jim Lewis
   U.C. Berkeley

kyle@xanth.UUCP (Kyle Jones) (10/04/87)

In article <21110@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, James Wilbur Lewis writes:
> I don't relish the prospect of having all my outgoing mail screened by
> my U.C. Berkeley officials in an effort to avoid legal difficulties...

And U.C. Berkeley wouldn't relish it either.  It would be more
expedient for them to just axe netnews access.  And that would most
emphatically be that.

leonard@qiclab.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson) (10/07/87)

In article <2649@xanth.UUCP> kyle@xanth.UUCP (Kyle Jones) writes:
<In article <21110@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, James Wilbur Lewis writes:
<> I don't relish the prospect of having all my outgoing mail screened by
<> my U.C. Berkeley officials in an effort to avoid legal difficulties...
<
<And U.C. Berkeley wouldn't relish it either.  It would be more
<expedient for them to just axe netnews access.  And that would most
<emphatically be that.

As far as I know (and I freely admit that I'm not an expert) the only precedents
are those from the case(s) involving credit card info and the like being posted
on bulletin board systems. If these _are_ the only precedents, then the owner of
a system is _totally_ responsible for anything posted on it, even if he didn't
know it was there!

By extension, I'd guess that mail & netnews would be the resonsibility of the
originating site (though I wouldn't put it past the legal system to decide that
_all_ sites that carried the offending material were liable).

We have _got_ to get some precedents, or better yet, some intellgent laws on the
subject. But I'm afraid that if the orinigator cannot be identified, then the
sysadmin is the one whose neck will be on the line... (and likewise if the
originating site can't be identified, the last site oin the chain will be 'it')


-- 
Leonard Erickson		...!tektronix!reed!percival!bucket!leonard
CIS: [70465,203]		...!tektronix!reed!qiclab!leonard
"I used to be a hacker. Now I'm a 'microcomputer specialist'.
You know... I'd rather be a hacker."

PAAP@homxc.UUCP (PAAP) (10/08/87)

If the person who got insulted is interested I'm not positive,
but I am better than 90% sure I know who the jerk was who
insulted you.  He works for AT&T Technologies in Columbus, OH.
I don't think anything will come of it, but if you'd like his
name and business phone number then you can contact me.

Geoff Gex
AT&T Bell Labs
Red Hill
201-615-5396
homxc!geoff