richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (02/27/88)
I propose a newsgroup on the topic of fonts.
Aesthetics, legal issues, "whats available", "where can I get it"
...that sort of stuff.
This is an official (well, as official as it gets) call for votes.
I will count votes EMAILED to me at one of the addresses below
starting today, February 26, 1987, and will collect votes for 30
days. If we get 100 more yes than no votes, it will be comp.fonts,
otherwise after the obligatory discussion, it will be alt.fonts.
If you see this message more than once, chalk it up to...uhh, experience.
Followups to the appropriate group; edit the newsgroups line.
--
"Each morning when I wake up to rise, I'm living in a dreamland"
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM
{ihnp4!scgvaxd!cadovax, rutgers!marque, codas!ddsw1} gryphon!richardhenry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (03/04/88)
> I propose a newsgroup on the topic of fonts.
Why?
Font discussions have cropped up before in comp.text and comp.laser-printers
(probably in comp.lang.postscript too, but I don't read it). There has never
been enough volume to justify a whole newsgroup.
No, creating the newsgroup will not magically create discussions in it.
This sounds plausible in theory but it doesn't work that way in practice.
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!henry
--
Those who do not understand Unix are | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
condemned to reinvent it, poorly. | {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,utai}!utzoo!henrytrb@ima.ISC.COM (Andrew Tannenbaum) (03/05/88)
In article <1988Mar3.210010.4147@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > No, creating the newsgroup will not magically create discussions in it. > This sounds plausible in theory but it doesn't work that way in practice. I find the repetition of this idea tiring. If you want to ask why, then do so. Just saying that "it sounds plausible in theory but doesn't work in practice" is a handwave. There is plenty of junk on the netwaves; font issues might not be immediately important to you, but they are plenty important to lots of people in our industry, and they're indirectly important to everyone who is reading this message. Here are some reasons for a fonts group: Until now, font management has been monopolized by font factories like ITC and AM Varityper (for instance). The little people were not allowed access to formats, and we were stuck with what was sold to us (or, more accurately, rammed up our bodily orifices in exchange for large sums of money). Now, the price of finer resolution (100-1500 dpi) output devices has left us with the problem of co-ordinating fonts for screens, laser printers, and other goofy devices, everything from plotters to routers to matrix printers to tv graphics boxes. Many/most manufacturers are still stuck in the dark ages, each with their own proprietary formats. If you tell them that you'd like to provide a uniform interface to the fonts in your products, they shrug their shoulders and dare you to try. There are internationalization issues, format standardization and conversion issues, discussions of available software, techniques, and works in progress. Many of these discussions don't fit in comp.text or comp.text.postscript. A netnews group would be a good forum to discuss this problem, whether or not uninterested parties think the discussion bloom at a rate that pleases them. I just hope we get enough votes. Andrew Tannenbaum Interactive Boston, MA +1 617 247 1155
henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) (03/08/88)
> > No, creating the newsgroup will not magically create discussions in it. > > This sounds plausible in theory but it doesn't work that way in practice. > > I find the repetition of this idea tiring. If you want to ask why, > then do so. Just saying that "it sounds plausible in theory but > doesn't work in practice" is a handwave. No, it's a statement of an established fact. Look at the brisk traffic in comp.std.internat if you doubt this -- that was another newsgroup created in hopes of sparking vigorous discussions on an undoubtedly- significant issue. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. > There is plenty of junk on > the netwaves; font issues might not be immediately important to you... > Here are some reasons for a fonts group: [fonts are worth discussing] Au contraire; font issues are important to me. I would be interested in reading discussions about them. Why don't you start some? Virtually everything you mention is at least marginally appropriate for comp.text. A font newsgroup is not a prerequisite for font discussions, in fact the usual rule is the other way around. Just because fonts are *worth* discussing doesn't mean they *will* be discussed. The way to get a font newsgroup is to talk about fonts, not to talk about font newsgroups. -- Those who do not understand Unix are | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology condemned to reinvent it, poorly. | {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,utai}!utzoo!henry
nwinton@btnix.UUCP (Neil Winton) (03/09/88)
From article <900@ima.ISC.COM>, by trb@ima.ISC.COM (Andrew Tannenbaum): > In article <1988Mar3.210010.4147@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >> No, creating the newsgroup will not magically create discussions in it. >> This sounds plausible in theory but it doesn't work that way in practice. [Many good reasons for comp.fonts deleted] > A netnews group would be a good forum to discuss this problem, whether > or not uninterested parties think the discussion bloom at a rate that > pleases them. I just hope we get enough votes. > > Andrew Tannenbaum Interactive Boston, MA +1 617 247 1155 As someone who might not be able to make much contribution to such a group on the technical level, but who takes an aesthetic interest in matters of typography/calligraphy/font design, you have my vote. Neil E-Mail (UUCP) NWinton@axion.bt.co.uk (...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!axion!nwinton) Organisation British Telecom Research Laboratories (RT3134) Snail Mail BTRL, Rm 23 B68, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH IP5 7RE, UK Telephone +44 473 646079 (or +44 473 643210) *** This line intentionally left justified ***
kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin Barry Crocker) (03/10/88)
>for screens, laser printers, and other goofy devices, everything from >plotters to routers to matrix printers to tv graphics boxes. Many/most > >There are internationalization issues, format standardization and >conversion issues, discussions of available software, techniques, and >works in progress. > Andrew Tannenbaum Interactive Boston, MA +1 617 247 1155 Although Henry@utzoo has some good points my inclination is that the arguements put forth by Andrew are the critical ones. I know almost nothing about fonts and typography etc., but my job is to produce course materials for use in distance education and I need to interact with our media lab (visual designers, typographers, visual artists, etc.) and I have already run into the situation where for pedagogical reasons I need to have serious imput into the final product. Everyone must understand that the environment that controls what my students' learning experiences are is almost totally dependent on the visual presentation. It would be extremely helpful to me if I had one forum where I could go to for a robust discussion on this topic. I try to follow comp.text and all the others but I have found these discussions to be focused on other issues versus a concerted focus on the font. Well just my $-.02 cents worth. ihnp4!alberta!auvax!kevinc (Kevin Crocker Athabasca University)
wnp@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) (03/10/88)
In article <552@auvax.UUCP> kevinc@auvax.UUCP (Kevin Barry Crocker) writes:
->>for screens, laser printers, and other goofy devices, everything from
->>plotters to routers to matrix printers to tv graphics boxes. Many/most
->>
->>There are internationalization issues, format standardization and
->>conversion issues, discussions of available software, techniques, and
->>works in progress.
->> Andrew Tannenbaum Interactive Boston, MA +1 617 247 1155
->
->Although Henry@utzoo has some good points my inclination is that the
->arguements put forth by Andrew are the critical ones.
->
->I know almost nothing about fonts and typography etc., but my job is to
->produce course materials for use in distance education and I need to
->interact with our media lab (visual designers, typographers, visual
->artists, etc.) and I have already run into the situation where for
->pedagogical reasons I need to have serious imput into the final
->product. Everyone must understand that the environment that controls
->what my students' learning experiences are is almost totally dependent
->on the visual presentation. It would be extremely helpful to me if I
->had one forum where I could go to for a robust discussion on this
->topic. I try to follow comp.text and all the others but I have found
->these discussions to be focused on other issues versus a concerted
->focus on the font.
->
An interesting aspect to consider in talking about a font group is this:
Should the group concern itself mainly with technical aspects, such as
the various bitmap, outline and vector formats used to store fonts on
computers, OR should it concern itself with the artistic and design aspects
which make up Typography.
Of course Typography is broader than just the individual fonts, it really
includes such things as page layout and the relationship between fonts on
the printed page as well, and would thus inevitably spill over into comp.text
and comp.text.desktop.
Computer font formats on the other hand, are often machine specific, and
discussions of these will thus inevitably spill over into the various
comp.sys.* groups, as well as into comp.text.*.
Even though I sent in a vote for a font group, on second thought Henry's
contention that a group won't cause discussion makes sense, and maybe we
should wait for more actual discussion of font issues in comp.text and
maybe comp.text.desktop before starting another group to cross-post to.
--
Wolf N. Paul Phone: (214) 306-9101 (h) (214) 404-8077 (w)
3387 Sam Rayburn Run UUCP: ihnp4!killer!{dcs, doulos}!wnp
Carrollton, TX 75007 INTERNET: wnp@eesdes.das.net ESL: 62832882