ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) (06/04/88)
In article <6013@cup.portal.com> Customer_Portal_Service@cup.portal.com writes: >.... A pseudonym on Portal (such as JJ) is a convenience, not a way >to hide one's identity. Huh? Give me that again? Other than being a convenient way to hide one's identity, what other sort of convenience is it? >It seems ironic that Portal gets flamed for permitting JJ to (in our >opinion) deliberately abuse the net, then also gets flamed for not >protecting him from the consequences of his actions. Last time I looked, two wrongs *still* did not make a right! Your action was not "not protecting him", it was deliberately throwing a customer to the wolves. Now *you* probably think that he should pay the consequences, I know *I* think that he should pay *some* consequences, and probably *everybody* thinks that he should ...., but somehow the behaviour of Portal in this whole affair does not smell too good. The fact is, JJ took advantage of facilities *you* offered him, and which he payed for (?), and which you presumably do not monitor too closely. I even got a Bad Feeling reading all the obviously Low Key specific responses you posted in all the various newsgroups. I don't know why, but I would have felt happier if they had been hands-in-the-air-horror broadcast far and wide! There was something contrived there. Readers: Frankly I don't think any fraud was involved, the guy was just panhandling. My reaction when I saw the posting was concern for the amount of flame traffic it was going to generate, not too much concern over the posting itself - that was trivial to handle, the 'n' key did it, although several times were required - a minor irritant, I must admit. The sanctimonious outpouring from the net.names lived up to expectations! We n'd over more *copies* of the posting in the outcry than were originally posted! Why are we always so surprised when this sort of inevitability happens? The net is *wide open* to such abuses, and sites like Portal's mean that accountability on the part of their users is about nil. They just lose their account - do I hear a faint "Big Deal!" from JJ as he drives away in his supposed BMW? So, if as a community we cannot accept jj.behaviour, then perhaps the accountability should be directed towards the *site*. I do believe that we should question whether *uncontrolled* access to USENET should be allowed by general public-access sites, particularly those who make profits out of that access to USENET. Portal, by deliberately publishing the guy's name and telephone number, have attempted to divert attention which was turning towards *them*. Well, my reaction is - let's take an even closer look at them, and their ilk, on USENET. -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!{philabs, mnetor}!micomvax!ray Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455 St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090
wisner@killer.UUCP (Bill Wisner) (06/06/88)
In article <1098@micomvax.UUCP> ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) writes: >>.... A pseudonym on Portal (such as JJ) is a convenience, not a way >>to hide one's identity. >Huh? Give me that again? Other than being a convenient way to hide one's >identity, what other sort of convenience is it? A great many universities and companies let people choose their own username for their account, right? A great many of these machines have the standard Berkeley utility "chfn," right? Sorry, pal. Portal ain't by no means the only place with pseudonyms. -- Bill Wisner ..!{ames,att,decwrl,ihnp4,mit-eddie,osu-cis}!killer!wisner
ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) (06/10/88)
In article <4370@killer.UUCP> wisner@killer.UUCP (Bill Wisner) writes: >In article <1098@micomvax.UUCP> ray@micomvax.UUCP (Ray Dunn) writes: Portal: >>> A pseudonym on Portal (such as JJ) is a convenience, not a way >>> to hide one's identity. Ray Dunn: >> Huh? Give me that again? Other than being a convenient way to hide one's >>identity, what other sort of convenience is it? Bill Wisner: >Sorry, pal. Portal ain't by no means the only place with pseudonyms. Bill is indeed 100% correct, I know not why he apologizes! It is also 100% a fact that I never suggested for a second that they were. Aha! Perhaps there lies the reason for the apology! (:-). Read it again! I only questioned, and still do, Portal's assertion that a pseudonym is some sort of convenience *other* than to hide one's identity (on *their* system, on *my* system, on *any* system!) -- Ray Dunn. | UUCP: ..!{philabs, mnetor}!micomvax!ray Philips Electronics Ltd. | TEL : (514) 744-8200 Ext: 2347 600 Dr Frederik Philips Blvd | FAX : (514) 744-6455 St Laurent. Quebec. H4M 2S9 | TLX : 05-824090
doug-merritt@cup.portal.com (06/13/88)
Ray Dunn writes: >Read it again! I only questioned, and still do, Portal's assertion that a >pseudonym is some sort of convenience *other* than to hide one's identity >(on *their* system, on *my* system, on *any* system!) I'm on Portal (because it's cheaper than long distance phone calls I used to rely on). Portal provides pseudonym's as a tool. Some users may use them to hide their identity. Others do not. What other purpose could they possibly serve? Well, for brain-damaged reasons, they require me to give them a middle name for my account logon. So by default my name in my postings would be "doug-rands-merritt", which I don't care for. So I'm pleased to use psuedonyms to change it to "doug-merritt". Yep, hiding my identity...until now, no one knew my middle name!!! Other people on the system (most of whom do not use Usenet) use psuedonyms to be "cute", a popular pastime on BBS's. Like "BornBlonde" and "Wizard" and "IBMtoTheEnd" etc etc. In the world of bulletin boards, this use of psuedonyms is more the rule than the exception. It's just part of the culture. A few people misuse it, most do not. A very few, like me, buck the trend on BBS's, and get a reputation for being no fun, or uncreative, for using our real names. I'm sorry to be so negative, but it seems to me that to judge Portal by JJ's postings is naive, narrow minded, and rude. JJ is a fradulent asshole who accomplishes his devious ends on many systems other than Portal. What's that got to do with everyone else??? Maybe the problem is simply lack of clarification: unlike many Usenet sites, Portal is a commercial *bulletin board*, which just happens to be connected to Usenet. It is based on a network of Suns running Unix, but the Unix layer is 100% unavailable to customers. So as far as what is reasonable to provide to their customers, the answer is: BBS-oriented services. And that creates a very different context than the Usenet sites, commercial or not, which provide a Unix interface. Doug -- Doug Merritt ucbvax!sun.com!cup.portal.com!doug-merritt or ucbvax!eris!doug (doug@eris.berkeley.edu) or ucbvax!unisoft!certes!doug
wpohl@hvrunix.UUCP (Walter E. Pohl) (06/14/88)
It's true that the outpouring of complaint propogated more copies of JJ's message than his original message did, but it seems that, according to Portal and the evidence they have, the guy wasn't just panhandling, but the postings were some kind of joke. JJ is probably just as responsible for the outcry as he is for the original post. The response of the net was predictable, and JJ should have realized this would cause a hue and cry. On top of the fact that bit about needing money from college is apparently not true, and his actions become indefensible. Portal isn't unique in the lack of monitering. Here at Haverford, we'renot monitered any more than portal. And I don't see why that is necessarily a bad thing. How often do people run amok with their net.privileges? Not all that often, as far as I can see. There is no special morality that the rest of us gains from being connected with a university or industry. JJ ran amok not because he was a Portal user, but because he was JJ. walt