skyler@violet.berkeley.edu (11/28/88)
Some have argued that the questionable joke should be taken very seriously because attitudes like those expressed in the joke were the cause of/same as those which resulted in/caused the Holocaust. An interesting point, but not very well-founded. Nazis believed they had to remove certain kinds of dangerous genes from the gene polls--genes which were supposedly associated with criminality. Based on Spencer, Lombroso, and other "Darwinists" (their reading of Darwin was, I would argue, questionable) they argued that crime resulted from atavism. Negroes, Jews, Gypsies, and other carried these atavistic genes. Hence, the way to wipe out crime was to wipe out those genes. In short, if that joke should worry anyone, it's the Scots, since it presents the Scot as the murderer. Pogroms were carried out in Eastern Europe on the basis of the idea that Jews had murdered Jesus, sacrificed Christian boys at Passoch, and other basically religious/superstitious notions. The Western Europe equivalent of pogroms happened when royalty owed too much money to Jewish bankers and was usually justified on religious grounds--usury is banned by the Bible. Proponents also used the standard relgious myths when handy. The Nazis found the stereotype of Jews as powerful, rich, and immoral useful in their programs. But it was not simply that Jews were supposed to be cheap, but that they were wealthy, and they were using their wealth for criminal ends--they had a conspiracy going. I think that the history of racism is fascinating--and that people should be well aware of it. _The MIsmeasure of Man_ is good, but about the only recent work on Lombroso--otherwise you have to read the primaries. -Trish skyler@ecsvax.uncecs.edu
aem@ibiza.Miami.Edu (a.e.mossberg) (11/28/88)
In <17452@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>, <skyler@violet.berkeley.edu> wrote: >Pogroms were carried out in Eastern Europe on the basis of the idea >that Jews had murdered Jesus, sacrificed Christian boys at Passoch, >and other basically religious/superstitious notions. While is Spain I saw an article in a newspaper about Jews and Masons which refered to Jews as "come-nin~os" (sp?) -- child-eaters. aem a.e.mossberg - aem@mthvax.miami.edu - aem@mthvax.span (3.91) In the media, that's where the battle is. That's where the communication is going to be affected. That's where the education is going to take place. - Little Steven
waters@dover.uucp (Mike Waters) (11/29/88)
In article <17452@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> skyler@violet.berkeley.edu () writes: >An interesting point, but not very well-founded. Nazis believed >they had to remove certain kinds of dangerous genes from the gene >polls--genes which were supposedly associated with criminality. >Based on Spencer, Lombroso, and other "Darwinists" (their reading >of Darwin was, I would argue, questionable) they argued that crime >resulted from atavism. Negroes, Jews, Gypsies, and other carried >these atavistic genes. Hence, the way to wipe out crime was to wipe >out those genes. The scary thing is that their "pseudo logic" sounds so reasonable if you don't carry it through to its logical conclusions. Dachau Concentrations Camp Memorial has a superb display of the philosophical basis of Naziism, (much of it with English translations). Combined with an object lesson on the results it is downright scary. Unfortunately if you listen closely to many politicians and TV evangelists you hear far too much of the same thing, but this isn't alt.politics .... > >I think that the history of racism is fascinating--and that people >should be well aware of it. _The MIsmeasure of Man_ is good, but >about the only recent work on Lombroso--otherwise you have to read >the primaries. I agree, too many people think of Nazis as the stupid caricatures in "Hogan's Heros" or something similar. They were (and still ARE!) neither stupid nor extinct unfortunately. -- Mike Waters (for your EDIFication) Motorola SMART CAD Group - EDIF (ANSI/EIA std. 548) support Mesa, AZ ...!sun!sunburn!dover!waters OR moto@cad.Berkley.EDU
yba@arrow.bellcore.com (Mark Levine) (11/30/88)
In article <17452@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> skyler@violet.berkeley.edu () writes: >I think that the history of racism is fascinating--and that people >should be well aware of it. _The MIsmeasure of Man_ is good, but >about the only recent work on Lombroso--otherwise you have to read >the primaries. As concerns us Jews, the most entertaining serious work I have seen is Mark Twain's "Concerning the Jews", originally published in Harper's Monthly and reprinted with postscript ("The Jew as Soldier") in _In Defense of Harriet Shelley_, Vol. 16 of the complete works as published by Harper and Brothers, New York, somewhere at or after 1925. It is especially apropos, as Twain offers the opinion that Scotland would be the _only_ place on Earth where it would be safe to establish a Jewish state. As Brad seems pretty safe now, I think this topic can safely leave news.groups. Eleazor bar Shimon, once and future Carolingian yba@sabre.bellcore.com