rae%alias@csri.utoronto.ca (Reid Ellis) (11/12/89)
Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes: |I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. The |intent is to help ward off people from asking for HPGL or TIFF or other |formats. Yes, the mnemonic is not totally obvious, but we think it strikes |a reasonable compromise. Two thoughts: the growing need for a place for image data in news; usenet oriented postings should go under the 'news' hierarchy. A place for images might be comp.binaries.images. A place for usenet map images might be news.maps.images. Usenet maps could be cross-posted. This does not address the "I want a TIFF version" questions mentioned, but I don't think it's that much of a problem -- has Brian Reid been deluged with such questions/requests? Reid --- Reid Ellis, 264 Broadway Avenue, Toronto ON, M4P 1V9, Canada rae%alias@csri.utoronto.ca +1 416 487 1383
allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) (11/13/89)
As quoted from <612@alias.UUCP> by rae%alias@csri.utoronto.ca (Reid Ellis): +--------------- | Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes: | |I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. The | |intent is to help ward off people from asking for HPGL or TIFF or other | |formats. Yes, the mnemonic is not totally obvious, but we think it strikes | |a reasonable compromise. | | This does not address the "I want a TIFF version" questions mentioned, but | I don't think it's that much of a problem -- has Brian Reid been deluged | with such questions/requests? +--------------- That shouldn't be much of a problem anyway: a little PostScript can make a BIG bitmap! Anyone who *got* a TIFF version mailed to them would probably not be able to handle the size of their mailbox.... ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery allbery@NCoast.ORG, BALLBERY (MCI Mail), ALLBERY (Delphi) uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu bsa@telotech.uucp *(comp.sources.misc mail to comp-sources-misc[-request]@backbone.site, please)* *Third party vote-collection service: send mail to allbery@uunet.uu.net (ONLY)* expnet.all: Experiments in *net management and organization. Mail me for info.
dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) (11/13/89)
In article <8911081800.AA06383@prune.bbn.com> Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes:
#This note is to start discussion for the group "comp.binaries.usenet-ps-maps."
#It will be moderated by Brian Reid <reid@decwrl.dec.com> The bulk of the
#postings will be Brian's Usenet Flow Maps ....
I think the best place is news.lists, where the other news statistics go.
If people really do want to separate them off from the plain text lists,
make it news.lists.maps. Nice and simple.
I really don't thing these maps should get mixed up with comp.binaries at all.
Mind you, wherever they finish up, I'll still print them out from time to
time; thanks, Brian, for creating them.
--
Regards, "None shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity"
David Wright STL, London Road, Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK
dww@stl.stc.co.uk <or> ...uunet!mcvax!ukc!stl!dww <or> PSI%234237100122::DWWjpp@specialix.co.uk (John Pettitt) (11/13/89)
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: >This note is to start discussion for the group "comp.binaries.usenet-ps-maps." >It will be moderated by Brian Reid <reid@decwrl.dec.com> The bulk of the >postings will be Brian's Usenet Flow Maps, which are PostScript files >created by data sent in from participating sites. (Much like the arbitron >reports.) Other maps may appear here, also. I am very much in fafor of this one. >I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. The >intent is to help ward off people from asking for HPGL or TIFF or other >formats. Yes, the mnemonic is not totally obvious, but we think it strikes >a reasonable compromise. Hmmm, at the risk of starting YABFA (yet another bloody fish argument :-) I would like to suggest another name. Firstly I don't like the current name because it limits the contents too much. Secondly there are several places that I can see that would be a better fit. The first thought I had was: comp.mail.maps.postscript There may be problems with this being under comp.mail.maps so how about comp.mail.ps-maps The other idea I had was if you are worried about keeping the HPGL types out then how about comp.lang.postscript.maps Comments welcome, flames to /dev/null. -- John Pettitt UUCP: uunet!slxsys!jpp Internet: John.Pettitt@specialix.co.uk JANET: emxxjpp@uk.ac.brunel.me POTS: +44 1 941 2564 FAX: +44 1 941 4098 Disclaimer: Me, say that ? Never, it's a forged posting !
kjones@talos.uucp (Kyle Jones) (11/14/89)
In article <8911081800.AA06383@prune.bbn.com> Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes: > This note is to start discussion for the group > "comp.binaries.usenet-ps-maps." > [...] > I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. The name IS pretty cumbersome., but not because of the "-ps-". Since we already have comp.mail.maps, what's wrong with comp.mail.ps-maps?
clewis@eci386.uucp (Chris Lewis) (11/14/89)
In article <8911081800.AA06383@prune.bbn.com> Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes: >This note is to start discussion for the group "comp.binaries.usenet-ps-maps." >I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. The >intent is to help ward off people from asking for HPGL or TIFF or other >formats. Yes, the mnemonic is not totally obvious, but we think it strikes >a reasonable compromise. We bandied about round here a suggestion along the lines of a new hierarchy devoted to network *administration* (not technology). Where things like connectivity, maps and administrative stuff could be carried. Eg: Brian's maps, Mel's comp.mail.maps, emergency hierarchies etc. Presently, "news." mostly fills the bill, except that "news." is really referring *only* to network news. For a *very* short time we thought of "net." (visions of nostalgic flamewars danced thru our heads), and thought eventually of "netadmin.", or "admin." or something like that. The idea being that this would be a generic network administration hierarchy with such subgroups as "news", and potentially "news.alt" (maybe), "news.biz", "mail", "internet" etc. The existing news. heirarchy could be moved lock-stock-and-barrel under a "admin.news" group. Naw too difficult - how could usenet newgroup guidelines apply? (unless we suspended the usenet newgroup guidelines ala alt) How about news.lists.{psmaps|newsmaps}? If we put it under news.lists, and Brian moderates, I don't think that there will be much complaint about not being able to get formats other than Postscript. Gene doesn't get much complaint about his stuff not being in TeX or troff does he? T'would be nice to have the mail maps under news.lists.mailmaps too, but never mind! -- He's a consultant: | Chris Lewis, Elegant Communications Inc. Lend him your watch | UUCP {uunet!attcan,utzoo}!lsuc!eci386!clewis and he'll tell you the time. | Moderator of the Ferret mailing list. Don Munroe, Cosmic Commander|
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (11/14/89)
In article <112@toaster.SFSU.EDU>, eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott) writes: | In article <8911081800.AA06383@prune.bbn.com> Rich Salz <rsalz@bbn.com> writes: | >I'm sure some people are opposed to the "-ps-" part of the name. | | No, I'm opposed to the comp.binaries part of the name. | How about news.graphics.ps? Yow! I hereby withdraw my previous suggestion. I didn't like binaries because the postings are not binary, but this sounds like a reasonable name and better shows the intent. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called 'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see that the world is flat!" - anon
msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) (11/15/89)
> Two thoughts: the growing need for a place for image data in news; usenet > oriented postings should go under the 'news' hierarchy. Seems to me that news.lists is a good enough place for all these large, machine-generated postings. -- Mark Brader, utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com C unions never strike! This article is in the public domain.
dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) (11/15/89)
In article <1989Nov13.191057.6656@talos.uucp> kjones@talos.uu.net writes:
#The name IS pretty cumbersome., but not because of the "-ps-". Since we
#already have comp.mail.maps, what's wrong with comp.mail.ps-maps?
Basically what's wrong with it is that the maps are about news flow, not
mail routing, so comp.mail doesn't really fit.
What's wrong with news.lists.maps? (Or even put them in the existing
news.lists along with the full Arbitron results).
Maybe this newsgroup would be a good try-out for a vote including multiple
names (by STV or whatever); I think we all agree that the maps are a
Good Thing, and nobody's trying to put them somewhere totally
inappropriate, so we might actually be able to have an argument about
the best name in the spirit of getting the name most people want, without
the usual flamefest. Or am I being naively optimistic in the face of net
history :-)
In the meantime the maps will stay in their present group (news.misc),
so a small delay in making a group for them will not matter too much.
Regards, "None shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity"
David Wright STL, London Road, Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK
dww@stl.stc.co.uk <or> ...uunet!mcvax!ukc!stl!dww <or> PSI%234237100122::DWWjeremy@misadel.oz (Jeremy Begg) (11/15/89)
In article <8911081800.AA06383@prune.bbn.com>, rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: > This note is to start discussion for the group "comp.binaries.usenet-ps-maps." > It will be moderated by Brian Reid <reid@decwrl.dec.com> The bulk of the > postings will be Brian's Usenet Flow Maps, which are PostScript files > created by data sent in from participating sites. (Much like the arbitron > reports.) Other maps may appear here, also. > Sounds like a good idea to me. It will keep these maps out of the mainstream newsgroups, while still allowing me to access them when I can make use of them. Jeremy Begg +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Management Information Systems, | E-Mail: jeremy@misadel.oz | | 125 Dew Street, Thebarton, | Phone: +61 8 3524877 (work) | | South Australia 5031 | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (11/16/89)
In article <1989Nov13.135216.2151@specialix.co.uk>, jpp@specialix.co.uk (John Pettitt) writes: [ and suggests so other names ] | comp.mail.maps.postscript | comp.mail.ps-maps | comp.lang.postscript.maps Just as I thought the term "binaries" was not a good one for ASCII text, I think that the name should stay in news.something, though, since it's currently part of news.lists, and is more related to that than anything else. Someone suggested using the term graphics in hops of future other info, but I don't care strongly on that issue. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called 'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see that the world is flat!" - anon
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) (11/16/89)
People aren't thrilled with the binary part of the name. No one name has gotten much support. I'm currently leaning toward one of these two: news.ps-maps (moderated) comp.mail.ps-maps (moderated) The "ps" helps (a little) to show that the format is PostScript. Yes, it could be news.maps.ps, but that's silly -- let's just wait until someone else starts doing a different type of thing. (And being realistic, who but Brian Reid will ever be collecting and manipulating this kind of data anyway?) It was felt that news.lists is for human-readable data. Comments? /r$ -- Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net. Use a domain-based address or give alternate paths, or you may lose out.
david@indetech.com (David Kuder) (11/17/89)
jpp@specialix.co.uk (John Pettitt) writes: >The first thought I had was: > comp.mail.maps.postscript >There may be problems with this being under comp.mail.maps so how about > comp.mail.ps-maps >The other idea I had was if you are worried about keeping the HPGL types >out then how about > comp.lang.postscript.maps Whatever name is chosen for a new newsgroup it should be nowhere near comp.mail or comp.mail.maps. Comp.mail.maps is already name space abuse, there is no need to further it. Comp.lang.postscript.maps is a little strange rather far cognitively from the stuff that is similar: news.lists. So let me offer my not so original opinion: use news.lists. -- David A. Kuder Comp.lang.perl, the time is now! 415 438-2003 david@indetech.com {uunet,sun,sharkey,pacbell}!indetech!david
roskuski@mirror.UUCP (Barry Roskuski) (11/18/89)
In article <2157@papaya.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes: >People aren't thrilled with the binary part of the name. No one name has >gotten much support. I'm currently leaning toward one of these two: > news.ps-maps (moderated) > comp.mail.ps-maps (moderated) > I think that news.ps-maps is the best name for this group. To me, at least, it describes exactly what is to be contained in the group. I don't believe that this belongs under comp. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Barry J. Roskuski Mirror Systems 2067 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 01240 roskuski@mirror.TMC.COM {mit-eddie, pyramid, harvard!wjh12, xait}!mirror!roskuski
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (11/19/89)
(a) This should obviously go under news.lists.
(b) It's not obvious whether the POSTSCRIPT part of the maps are the
important part. Maybe someone wants to do the same in Quickdraw, or
Autocad format, or something else.
So, how about starting with news.lists.maps? If need be a later split can be
made into news.list.maps.postscript, .quickdraw, .iff, and so on.
--
`-_-' Peter da Silva <peter@ficc.uu.net> <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
'U` -------------- +1 713 274 5180.
"vi is bad because it didn't work after I put jelly in my keyboard."
-- Jeffrey W Percival (jwp@larry.sal.wisc.edu)allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) (11/19/89)
As quoted from <1989Nov17.030335.1655@indetech.com> by david@indetech.com (David Kuder): +--------------- | Whatever name is chosen for a new newsgroup it should be nowhere near | comp.mail or comp.mail.maps. Comp.mail.maps is already name space | abuse, there is no need to further it. Comp.lang.postscript.maps | is a little strange rather far cognitively from the stuff that is | similar: news.lists. +--------------- I don't follow your statement that comp.mail.maps is name-space abuse: it is a newsgroup for the routing maps that make computer email possible (or at least much easier). As for news.lists, may I remind all those people who are posting without having looked at the map announcement that is regularly posted to news.lists and news.admin states that the people reading news.lists do not *want* the maps posted there. There are a number of *possible* solutions: * Ignore those who don't want the maps posted in news.lists. Can you say "flame war"? This would ultimately lead to: * Drop the PS maps, or make them available via FTP. This one is a distinct possibility. * Create a new newsgroup, following the proper rules. (A sub-case would be "create a new newsgroup without following the rules", which sub-case is probably my biggest early mistake as a moderator....) That is the solution currently being followed. * Use another existing or new newsgroup. Existing newsgroups are pretty well out for the same reason as news.lists. However, may I suggest that this idea might fold in well with (or alongside) the current comp.graphics.images proposal? ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery allbery@NCoast.ORG, BALLBERY (MCI Mail), ALLBERY (Delphi) uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu bsa@telotech.uucp *(comp.sources.misc mail to comp-sources-misc[-request]@backbone.site, please)* *Third party vote-collection service: send mail to allbery@uunet.uu.net (ONLY)* expnet.all: Experiments in *net management and organization. Mail me for info.
mesard@bbn.com (Wayne Mesard) (11/19/89)
allbery@ncoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) writes: >I don't follow your statement that comp.mail.maps is name-space abuse: it is >a newsgroup for the routing maps that make computer email possible (or at >least much easier). But it is related to Usenet specifically, rather than computers in general. And thus more properly belongs under news.*. >may I remind all those people who are posting without >having looked at the map announcement that is regularly posted to news.lists >and news.admin states that the people reading news.lists do not *want* the >maps posted there. That's what KILL files are for. > [...]may I suggest that this > idea might fold in well with (or alongside) the current comp.graphics.images > proposal? I liked news.lists.maps[.ps], myself. -- void *Wayne_Mesard(); Mesard@BBN.COM BBN, Cambridge, MA
ART100@PSUVM.BITNET (Andy Tefft) (11/19/89)
In article <2406@stl.stc.co.uk>, dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) says: > >In article <1989Nov13.191057.6656@talos.uucp> kjones@talos.uu.net writes: >#The name IS pretty cumbersome., but not because of the "-ps-". Since we >#already have comp.mail.maps, what's wrong with comp.mail.ps-maps? > >Basically what's wrong with it is that the maps are about news flow, not >mail routing, so comp.mail doesn't really fit. > >What's wrong with news.lists.maps? (Or even put them in the existing >news.lists along with the full Arbitron results). I don't understand how the 'lists' applies to a Usenet map...?
rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) (11/19/89)
In <7045@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >(a) This should obviously go under news.lists. I suppose so. Your wording rankles. >(b) It's not obvious whether the POSTSCRIPT part of the maps are the > important part. Maybe someone wants to do the same in Quickdraw, or > Autocad format, or something else. The fact that it's PostScript IS an important part. It was in Brian's original request for someone to handle the thing, and it's has been maintained all along that this group is primarily for Brian's maps. The current leading contender is "news.lists.ps-maps (moderated)" If the occasional non-PostScript map slips in, no problem. /r$ -- Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net. Use a domain-based address or give alternate paths, or you may lose out.
chip@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Chip Rosenthal) (11/20/89)
ART100@PSUVM.BITNET (Andy Tefft) writes: >I don't understand how the 'lists' applies to a Usenet map...? Because "news.lists" is the closest thing we've got to a "news.statistics.and.administrivia". I personally like "news.lists.ps-maps". BTW...I've seen a couple of suggestions that they stay where they are. It really would be a good service to move them out into a seperate newsgroup. The volume is high enough such that some sites won't want to receive them at all, and other sites will want to expire them quicker. -- Chip Rosenthal / chip@vector.Dallas.TX.US / Dallas Semiconductor / 214-450-5337 Someday the whole country will be one vast "Metroplex" - Zippy's friend Griffy ===> addr changes 11/22 to "chip@chinacat.Lonestar.ORG" (texbell!chinacat!chip)
allbery@NCoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) (11/20/89)
As quoted from <48465@bbn.COM> by mesard@bbn.com (Wayne Mesard): +--------------- | allbery@ncoast.ORG (Brandon S. Allbery) writes: | >I don't follow your statement that comp.mail.maps is name-space abuse: it is | >a newsgroup for the routing maps that make computer email possible (or at | >least much easier). | | But it is related to Usenet specifically, rather than computers in | general. And thus more properly belongs under news.*. +--------------- Uh, no. The Usenet != the UUCP mail network. For one example, there are sites which are listed in the mail maps which do not receive Usenet news (example: tdi2). For another example, there are sites which pass news but frown upon mail routing, the purpose of the maps (example: att). The two domains overlap but are NOT equivalent; the maps do not belong in news.all, but in the hierarchy for network-mail-oriented groups, which is comp.mail.all. ++Brandon -- Brandon S. Allbery allbery@NCoast.ORG, BALLBERY (MCI Mail), ALLBERY (Delphi) uunet!hal.cwru.edu!ncoast!allbery ncoast!allbery@hal.cwru.edu bsa@telotech.uucp *(comp.sources.misc mail to comp-sources-misc[-request]@backbone.site, please)* *Third party vote-collection service: send mail to allbery@uunet.uu.net (ONLY)* expnet.all: Experiments in *net management and organization. Mail me for info.
dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) (11/20/89)
In article <89323.004034ART100@PSUVM.BITNET> ART100@PSUVM.BITNET (Andy Tefft) writes:
#In article <2406@stl.stc.co.uk>, dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright) says:
#>
#>What's wrong with news.lists.maps? (Or even put them in the existing
#>news.lists along with the full Arbitron results).
#
#I don't understand how the 'lists' applies to a Usenet map...?
Look at the information and its use, not its form. The other info in
news.lists is statistics about news volumes, both in flow through one
point (uunet) and in statistics about group propagation and readership.
The maps are statistics about news volume flow point-to-point around the
world. Exactly the same class of information - it just happens to be
presented in a graphical form rather than textual. It's a multi-media
world out there :-)
This leads to two possible views:
1- Its the same sort of information, so put it in the same place, or
2- Its the same sort of information, but because of the format the volume
is high, and some people would not want to pay for that volume, so put it
in a separate but related group (e.g. news.list.maps)
I'd be happy with either of these.
On a related matter, its been suggested that "people said the data couldn't
go in news.lists" (it is at present in news.admin). Which people? I don't
recall any vote on the matter :-) If some people we respect don't want
it in news.lists for good reasons, I hope they'll post to say why, in which
case that will make the case for a new group (e.g. news.lists.maps) much
stronger. Otherwise I'd vote for putting them in news.lists.
Regards, "None shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity"
David Wright STL, London Road, Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK
dww@stl.stc.co.uk <or> ...uunet!mcvax!ukc!stl!dww <or> PSI%234237100122::DWWpeter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (11/21/89)
> >(a) This should obviously go under news.lists. > I suppose so. Your wording rankles. Sorry. I'm out of Lysol. > The current leading contender is "news.lists.ps-maps (moderated)" Sounds good to me, though I still think that it's better to fill in the lower levels of the tree before showing branches in. How do you suppose we'll get rec.ham-radio under rec.radio.amateur now? (one reason I wanted comp.unix.i386 instead of comp.unix.sysv386, for example) -- `-_-' Peter da Silva <peter@ficc.uu.net> <peter@sugar.lonestar.org>. 'U` -------------- +1 713 274 5180. "ERROR: trust not in UUCP routing tables" -- MAILER-DAEMON@mcsun.EU.net
kjones@talos.uucp (Kyle Jones) (11/21/89)
Peter da Silva writes: > (a) This should obviously go under news.lists. I disagree. Lists aren't maps and maps aren't lists. news.maps.ps would be better.