storm@texas.dk (Kim F. Storm) (11/22/89)
SUGGESTED NAME: news.software.nn This is in my opinion the logical name for a group dealing with a news reader named nn. PURPOSE: To discuss subjects related to the nn news reader. This includes questions, answers, ideas, hints, information from the development group, patches, etc. The group is intended to replace the nn-info mailing list which we now consider to be too large to handle properly (we have actually been asked by the danish backbone to limit the traffic on the list). And by definition, all users of the nn news reader should be able to read news.software.nn ! ESTIMATE OF USER INTERREST: 150+ and growing fast There are more than 100 addresses on the nn-info list, of which many are local distribution lists, so I would imagine that the list currently reaches about 150 users. New addresses are added to the nn-info list almost daily. TRAFFIC ESTIMATE: 25+ articles per week Currently, there are between 1 and 5 entries on the nn-info list each day. With a news group replacing the mailing list, I would estimate this would at least double very quickly, giving about 25 articles per week. In addition, the postings about nn which would otherwise be sent to news.software.b, comp.sources.bugs, and number of other groups would naturally be posted to the proposed group. MODERATION: No. I would prefer the users of nn can use the group as an open forum for discussions, and I don't see a need for moderation on this group. COMMENTS: I am the author of the nn news reader, so I am not the right person to tally the votes! If somebody in favour of the proposal will volounteer to be the vote-taker, I would be greatful. Contact me! Several other popular news readers have very active news groups devoted to them (although few in the news.software hierarchy). I deeply feel the need for a group discussing nn, because the current mailing list has grown out of proportions, and I may be forced to shut it down. And why should we have to discuss a news reader though mail anyway? Isn't that what news is for :-) -- Kim F. Storm storm@texas.dk Tel +45 429 174 00 Texas Instruments, Marielundvej 46E, DK-2730 Herlev, Denmark No news is good news, but nn is better!
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (11/24/89)
> SUGGESTED NAME: news.software.nn
Maybe this is really the time to push for the change of news.software.*
to news.software.transport and news.software.readers. While I do not
at all think that nn is not deserving of a place of discussion on the
net, I still believe we need _less_ news.software.every.seperate.piece=
.of.news.software groups.
Dave
--
(setq mail '("tale@pawl.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))coolidge@brutus.cs.uiuc.edu (John Coolidge) (11/24/89)
storm@texas.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: >ESTIMATE OF USER INTERREST: 150+ and growing fast >There are more than 100 addresses on the nn-info list, of which many >are local distribution lists, so I would imagine that the list >currently reaches about 150 users. New addresses are added to the >nn-info list almost daily. I was dubious about this when I read the subject like, but the traffic analysis suggests that it's a good idea. And, since I use nn, I'm in favor of seeing the discussion (the discussion list had, for some inexplicable reason, missed my notice --- if it weren't for the information about load, I'd be sending in a request to join). >I am the author of the nn news reader, so I am not the right person to >tally the votes! If somebody in favour of the proposal will volounteer >to be the vote-taker, I would be greatful. Contact me! I'm willing to take votes (I've never run a vote before, but I do have a fairly reliable mailer and a pretty well-connected site). If someone more experienced in running votes would like to do it, though, I'd gladly step aside (:-)). --John -------------------------------------------------------------------------- John L. Coolidge Internet:coolidge@cs.uiuc.edu UUCP:uiucdcs!coolidge Of course I don't speak for the U of I (or anyone else except myself) Copyright 1989 John L. Coolidge. Copying allowed if (and only if) attributed. You may redistribute this article if and only if your recipients may as well. New NNTP connections always available! Send mail if you're interested.
scs@itivax.iti.org (Steve Simmons) (11/24/89)
This group would be a good idea. Most of my users who've seen nn switch to it, and the mailing list contains a lot of questions that would be best spread by newsgroup (so my nn users could go 'hey, that's at neat idea'). -- Steve Simmons scs@iti.org Industrial Technology Institute You're not a big name on Usenet until someone puts you in their .sig file.
wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (11/25/89)
I'm in favor of it. I have a love/hate relationship with nn. I keep trying it out with high hopes. Each time, I end up giving up and hoping that somebody will add the crucial features I miss from rn, (TAB and external mailers, more-c style listing of posts before I send them) and the features neither has (mbox file of what I posted) yet. Maybe with a newsgroup and greater interest, these WILL get added. -- A host is a host & from coast to coast...wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu no one will talk to a host that's close..............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335
aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) (11/25/89)
I think this is an excellent idea, as I am a "long time" user of nn and on the existing nn-info mailing list. It's not as clear to me, however, as to Kim Storm that news.software.nn is the correct name. It may be well so, but I don't see an already existing news.software.rn, news.software.vnews, etc. Maybe this is the time to wholeheartedly expand news.software.* into newsreaders as well. Do any of the ancients here remember the original purpose of the news.software heirarchy? Anyway, in summary, YES, THIS IS A GOOD IDEA. nn, BTW, is available from mthvax.cs.miami.edu (129.171.32.5) under ~ftp/pub/nn for anon. ftp. aem -- a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion Rose is a rose is a rose. - Gertrude Stein
ambar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Jean Marie Diaz) (11/26/89)
From: tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence)
Date: 23 Nov 89 21:29:37 GMT
[...] I still believe we need _less_ news.software.every.seperate.piece=
.of.news.software groups.
Actually, I disagree. I see no reason to wade through traffic about
reader X when that reader is not installed on any of my systems.
Neither is there a good reason to combine (say) news.software.b and
news.software.anu-news. (Though news.software.b is rather misnamed
these days, there's no shortage of traffic in it.) As long as the
divisions are clear (and they could hardly be clearer in this case),
having separate groups provide a clear win for people who only want to
read part of the traffic. People who want to see it all can subscribe
to all the groups.
AMBAR
ambar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu {mit-eddie,uunet}!bloom-beacon!ambartale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) (11/26/89)
In <AMBAR.89Nov25221054@bill-the-cat.mit.edu> ambar@bloom-beacon.mit.edu
(Jean Marie Diaz) writes:
Jean> I see no reason to wade through traffic about reader X when that
Jean> reader is not installed on any of my systems. Neither is there
Jean> a good reason to combine (say) news.software.b and
Jean> news.software.anu-news.
As has been pointed out in the past, there is a lot of inter-relation
between various news systems that it behooves news admins to know.
Jean> As long as the divisions are clear (and they could hardly be
Jean> clearer in this case), having separate groups provide a clear win
Jean> for people who only want to read part of the traffic. People who
Jean> want to see it all can subscribe to all the groups.
In retrospect I feel my initial response was a bit hasty; at least, I
did not support it at all, partly because most of the support for such
a stance has already been provided in news.groups, news.admin and
news.software.b in the past, by myself and others.
I do believe that having a news.software.transport for all of B, C,
TMNN, ANU, NNTP, et al, is still a worthwhile venture. Even
n.s.readers is worthwhile from a news administrator's point of view
(well, this one's view, at least) but it is pretty poor for users.
After all, even though the news admin might support several different
readers, the user generally has just one which is used >95% of the
time.
I'd probably end up reading news.software.nn even though I would prefer
to read a group about all of the readers. Cross-educationalization,
donchaknow. As it is I feel like I read too many groups that relate
pretty directly to my work. I don't bother with some of the groups
that I would otherwise read and enjoy. I don't like or use nn but I
support it here because I know I have users who do like it. I'd be
reading n.s.nn out of a feeling of responsibility more than any desire
too and that's why I'd want to just bag it. :-) I wouldn't feel quite
that way about a general readers group.
Summary: for the sake of the users, who really are the reason this is
all here, news.software.nn is perhaps the best choice. It would be
setting a precedent, though, as being the first news.software group
devoted to a newsreader. In light of that, starting news.software.readers
seems like a good beginning point for future branching. In spite of
my preference, I don't _strongly_ care either way. It's only USENET.
Dave
PS: Has anyone done any efficiency work on nnmaster? If so, please
contact me if you could help me make it less of a resource glutton.
--
(setq mail '("tale@pawl.rpi.edu" "tale@ai.mit.edu" "tale@rpitsmts.bitnet"))
"... the broader subject of usenet customs and other bizarre social phenomena."
-- Phil Agre <agre@gargoyle.uchicago.edu>steve@groucho.ucar.edu (Steve Emmerson) (11/28/89)
Right name; right charter; right amount of moderation (none); and useful. ----- Steve Emmerson steve@unidata.ucar.edu
karen@everexn.uucp (Karen Valentino) (11/30/89)
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) writes: >Summary: for the sake of the users, who really are the reason this is >all here, It's nice to hear this from a sysadmin. Thanks. I hope that most sysadmins have your attitude. >news.software.nn is perhaps the best choice. I agree. The name says it all. And as a fan of nn, I'm thrilled at the prospect of an nn group. Hopefully it will be much duller than news.groups. Karen -- Karen Valentino <> Everex North (Everex Systems) <> Sebastopol, CA ..pacbell!mslbrb!everexn!karen "Something there is that doesn't love a wall." Robert Frost
mehl@atanasoff.cs.iastate.edu (Mark M Mehl) (11/30/89)
tale@pawl.rpi.edu (David C Lawrence) writes: >Summary: for the sake of the users, who really are the reason this is >all here, news.software.nn is perhaps the best choice. It would be >setting a precedent, though, as being the first news.software group >devoted to a newsreader. In light of that, starting news.software.readers >seems like a good beginning point for future branching. It would probably make everyone happy if the nn news group was simply nammed news.software.readers.nn . This would allow for future branching and would also give nn users there own group; it would be the best of all worlds. Also, I agree with some earlier postings that most people tend to stick with one news reader all the time; therefore, having separate news groups (and focused discussions) for individual news readers is a wise choice. Moreover, creating a news group like news.software.readers for the "other" readers should also be considered. I really can't comment on another proposal to create a news.software.transport.* group because I don't know how focused the readership would be for individual software modules of this type. -- /\ Mark M Mehl, alias Superticker (Supertickler to some) <><> Internet: mehl@atanasoff.cs.IAstate.edu \/ UUCP: {{mailrus,umix}!sharkey,hplabs!hp-lsd,uunet}!atanasoff!mehl Disclaimer: You got to be kidding; who would want to claim anything I said?