gmp@rayssd.ray.com (Gregory M. Paris) (12/06/89)
Some of you may be aware that a few easily amused people think it's funny to
start up cross-posting wars between talk.bizarre and other groups. A typical
beginning of these wars is that somebody posts an outrageous article to
talk.bizarre and cross-posts it to the victim group. Naive readers of the
victim group follow up to the article and the war begins.
Two such articles have recently arrived here, showing up in rec.arts.startrek.
One was posted by Richard Sexton, the other was posted by E.E. Carasso. Sexton
has tried this same trick several times in the past and a few times he's been
successful in starting a protracted war between the groups.
Personally, I'd have no problem with the existence of talk.bizarre if it
wasn't for this type of blatantly offensive behavior on the part of some
talk.bizarre posters. If they'd just keep to themselves, everybody would
be happy. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group
intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought
of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of
talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group.
Thanks!
--
Greg Paris <gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com>
{decuac,necntc,uiucdcs,uunet}!rayssd!gmp
When I'm dancing close to her
I can smell the chemicalstneff@bfmny0.UU.NET (Tom Neff) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes: >My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group >intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought >of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of >talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. Another solution would be to publish patches for B news, C news and TMNN that explicitly "quarantine" talk.bizarre by rewriting the Newsgroups: line to eliminate any groups mentioned _besides_ talk.bizarre. The effect would be to make t.b a "crosspost tarbaby". Unfortunately there is no universally accepted system for patching user behavior :-) -- "UNIX should be used :: Tom Neff <tneff@bfmny0.UU.NET> or as an adjective." -- AT&T :: ...uunet!bfmny0!tneff (UUCP only)
bee@cs.purdue.EDU (Zaphod Beeblebrox) (12/07/89)
Said gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris): (in article <122@rayssd.ray.com>) | |My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group |intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought |of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of |talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. ACK. Ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack. NO, PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT SOMETHING LIKE THIS. This is probably the most effective way to raise net.hell that I know of. If talk.bizarre is trying to start a flame war with a group in which you have interest, post instructions on how to set up a kill file to kill all crosspostings in from talk.bizarre, and tell everyone in the group to IGNORE ANYTHING that comes from talk.bizarre. That is the ONLY EFFECTIVE WAY to deal with these folk. Ignore them and they go away. B.E.E. -- Z. Beeblebrox | I live with two people, I like both of them. (alias B. Elmore) | He likes both of me and I like both of him. bee@cs.purdue.edu | They're my alter egos and to them I'm wed, ..!purdue!bee | 'Cause I'm happy I live in a split-level head. -- Nap. XIV
amb@cs.columbia.edu (Andrew Boardman) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes: >My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group >intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought >of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of >talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. Seems to me this sort of things has been tried before. A stunt like this, aimed at talk.bizarre-ites, is not going to *decrease* the amount of flamage around. Not bloody close. Last time they just took over a new news group. Technical note to consider, if this cross-posting thing annoys you: If t.b is not propogated directly, cross-posting to a group that *is* propogated will get the article propogated. Any group will do... /a
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (12/07/89)
I don't agree. All this will do is make people crosspost more messages to
inappropriate groups to get around the blocks.
--
`-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>.
'U` Also <peter@ficc.lonestar.org> or <peter@sugar.lonestar.org>.
"If you want PL/I, you know where to find it." -- Dennismeo@stiatl.UUCP (Miles O'Neal) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com>, well-known net-gimp and alt-hater gmp@rayssd.ray.com (Gregory M. Paris) writes: | Some of you may be aware that a few easily amused people think it's funny to | start up cross-posting wars between talk.bizarre and other groups. A typical First of all, you are misdiagnosing the problem. A few, easily amused people (FEAP) do like to start such wars, yes. But another FEAP do it for some other reason, whether because they enjoy baiting new netters, or just because they are easily amused. Malicious intent and silliness are different things. | beginning of these wars is that somebody posts an outrageous article to | talk.bizarre and cross-posts it to the victim group. Naive readers of the | victim group follow up to the article and the war begins. And it DOES take two to tango, according to the local dance studio. | Two such articles have recently arrived here, showing up in rec.arts.startrek. |One was posted by Richard Sexton, the other was posted by E.E. Carasso. Sexton Ah, so you are a victim, as well. There IS no E.E. Carasso, you see. | has tried this same trick several times in the past and a few times he's been | successful in starting a protracted war between the groups. | | Personally, I'd have no problem with the existence of talk.bizarre if it | wasn't for this type of blatantly offensive behavior on the part of some ^^^^ Be careful, this makes you sound like some sort of fascist-like twit, wanting to nuke a froup because of the deportment of the vast minority of said froup. | talk.bizarre posters. If they'd just keep to themselves, everybody would | be happy. Unfortunately, this is not the case. And the same might be said of you. So what? And guess who *propagates* these wars? Often, the "victims" keep them going on far after the "war-mongering talk.bizarreite" have shut up. For that matter, I have seen at least two of these *started* by someone who is a regular in r.a.s, but not in t.b; perhaps we should nuke *both* froups, sir? In fact, such things occur in other groups with absolutely NO t.b involvement, as well. Not as often, or with such volume, but they do occur. Shall we nuke them, while we are at it? | intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought | of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of | talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. Oh, my. And if we think that YOU are out of line, perhaps we should have a filter quit propagating your posts? This action can be thought of as "evolution in action". If you have a problem with particular net.persons, you need to address that directly. Be creative. Flood their mailbox. Write their sysadmin (heh). Email them a brick, postage due. -Miles O'Neal {yr fave backbone here}!emory!stiatl!meo BTW, you will make a fine addition to my collection of George A. Basars...
rissa@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (Patricia O Tuama) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes: >My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group >intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought >of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of >talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. But what good would this do, Greg? Even if you were to succeed in shutting down the newsgroup, the netters who post there would simply move to some other newsgroup. Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet big bucks that that's what would happen. And besides, where would this trend stop once it got started? t.b is hardly the worst net.offender when it comes to xposting.
learn@igloo.scum.com (Bill Haroldmegrhondapooh Vajk) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> Gregory M. Paris writes: > Sexton has tried this same trick several times in the past and a few times > he's been successful in starting a protracted war between the groups. > My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group > intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought > of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of > talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. Lets see if I have this straight. Sexton, one of the well entrenched net.troublemakers gets your.favorite.newsgroup.participants upset. They get into a flamefest with talk.bizarrites (them's the bad guys, with the black hats, and your pals are the good guys with the white hats.) So let's stop forwarding talk.bizarre because your pals and fishy.dickie's pals can't behave themselves ? And it is all Sexton's fault that you and the guys with the white hats can't control yourselves, right ? Lesse. Emacs & vi wars, soc.women vs the patriarchy wars, apple vs the world of computing wars, alt.pipes vs the world wars, chinese vs orientals wars, alt.flame vs portal && PSUVM wars, hb +/or Maroney (interchangable) vs reality wars......where will it end ? See, if I were wearing a black hat, and my newsgroup sorta died off because what you ask is granted, I think I'd write all my black.hat.buddies and we'd simply take over your newsgroup for our own purposes permanently. Some 20 years ago, I worked for Raytheon as a consultant. You've refreshed those dated opinions quite nicely (networked memory refresh, anyone ? :-) Stick to technical matters. You don't seem to do well with people. Bill.etc | Whatso in the egg was mottled | Now became the stars in heaven - Kalevala
gil@banyan.UUCP (Gil Pilz@Eng@Banyan) (12/07/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes: >Personally, I'd have no problem with the existence of talk.bizarre if it >wasn't for this type of blatantly offensive behavior on the part of some >talk.bizarre posters. If they'd just keep to themselves, everybody would >be happy. Unfortunately, this is not the case. I think we've found a new kind of bigot. A talk.bizarre bigot. "I don't hate talk.bizarre posters. Why, some of my best friends are talk.bizarre posters. I just wouldn't want my sister to marry one. As long as they keep in their place there'll be no problem" (shades of De Armond) . . . 2 . 3 . 4 . "that's a joke son <brraaaanngggggggg!>" I wish they'd cross-post to something I get, I miss 'em (well some of 'em). "with your feet in the air and your head on the ground take this trick and spin it (yeah) your head will collapse if there's nothing in it and you'll ask yourself 'where is my mind ?'" - the pixies Gilbert W. Pilz Jr. gil@banyan.com
dave@ccicpg.UUCP ( Dave Hill) (12/08/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com>, gmp@rayssd.ray.com (Gregory M. Paris) writes: > > My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group > intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought > of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of > talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. Why stop there? Why not just cut the entire news feed to the offending persons machines? Hey, here's an idea. Let's just cut the phone lines. Or maybe Spock can figure out some way to disable the offending machines from orbit. He's good with computers. Dave
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (12/08/89)
news.admin's own gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) said:
-
-Personally, I'd have no problem with the existence of talk.bizarre if it
-wasn't for this type of blatantly offensive behavior on the part of some
-talk.bizarre posters. If they'd just keep to themselves, everybody would
-be happy. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
Actually I've seen the same thing done in a number of newsgroups, *including*
rec.arts.startrek. And while "blatantly offensive" an inappropriately posted
article is no excuse to go over the deep end. Many are the users not in
talk.bizarre who prolong a flame war by blithering endlessly, when instead
if they had *ignored* the article, there wouldn't have been any problem.
-My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group
-intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought
-of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship.
Poor net-citizenship? When we've got people complaining about the whole
sci.aquaria thing, when we've had 2 newsgroups created with one vote
(sci.groupware, sci.groupware.f), when we've had rmgroup wars on alt,
you're worried about a few inappropriately posted articles? Wow. That's
really petty. I'm impressed.
Be a good net.citizen. Read the appropriate groups, contribute to the
discussion, and stay aware of the issues. Contribute something *constructive*
to the discussions going on in the news.* groups.
I thank you, and the net thanks you.
--
David Bedno, Systems Administrator, The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Email: davidbe@sco.COM / ..!{uunet,sun,ucbvax!ucscc,gorn}!sco!davidbe
Phone: 408-425-7222 x5123 Disclaimer: Speaking from SCO but not for SCO. mikey@ontek.UUCP (Michael E. Lee) (12/09/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes: | Some of you may be aware that a few easily amused people think it's funny to | start up cross-posting wars between talk.bizarre and other groups. A typical These "easily amused people" would be happy to do the same from any group -- there is nothing magical about the name "talk.bizarre". Destroy it's connectivity and the "nice" people on talk.bizarre will suffer, whilst the "evil" ones will just do the same trick from alt.flame or rec.humor. | beginning of these wars is that somebody posts an outrageous article to | talk.bizarre and cross-posts it to the victim group. Naive readers of the | victim group follow up to the article and the war begins. Did it occur to you that it is equally the fault of the naive? Would you propose we lobotomize smart people rather than educating the illiterate? I didn't think so. It's real easy to teach people to ignore such bait, and some can even be made to understand kill files. | Two such articles have recently arrived here, showing up in rec.arts.startrek. | One was posted by Richard Sexton, the other was posted by E.E. Carasso. Sexton | has tried this same trick several times in the past and a few times he's been | successful in starting a protracted war between the groups. I'm not a Richard Sexton sycophant, so I won't apologize for him. "E.E." Carasso (gorby, cosby, roger) is my hero and if you say anything bad about him I'll... I'll... I'll... cry! (Carasso sycophant card #4877) | Personally, I'd have no problem with the existence of talk.bizarre if it | wasn't for this type of blatantly offensive behavior on the part of some | talk.bizarre posters. Every newsgroup has some creeps. Even sci.physics gets some weirdos. Perhaps we should stop propagating that one? If it really offends you, send e-mail to the author or his/her site admin. | If they'd just keep to themselves, everybody would | be happy. I've heard exactly that same phrase applied to homosexuality. Your use of it offends me more than you are capable of understanding. | My proposal is this: let's quit propagating talk.bizarre. Leave the group | intact, but don't forward it to your neighbors. This action can be thought | of as a penalty for poor net-citizenship. If you think that the actions of | talk.bizarre posters are out of line, please quit propagating the group. EXCUSE ME! PARDON ME! I think all of your arguments apply equally well to news.groups, where it's almost required that articles be cross-posted and where flame wars can last months. Before we point fingers at a relatively benign talk group, we should wonder if perhaps Mr. Paris's article was a deliberate attempt to start exactly the kind of flame war which seems to disgust him so. If you took the bait, don't blame the worm. _K_r_i_l_l-_M_a_n And proud of it! mikey@ontek.uucp
meo@stiatl.UUCP (Miles O'Neal) (12/10/89)
Mr. Paris claims via email to have over 60 sysadmins to have written him saying that they are dropping talk.bizarre propagation. 1) Why are they not posting here? 2) Why should I believe someone who sounds like J.B. Stoner? So, I am open to proof of this. Not that it much matters. Since those theoretical (that's all they are to me - I'm not calling him a liar - until proven otherwise) 60+ sysadmins aren't from any major backbones, and probably not from anywhere feeding very many places, and since you can always get it somewhere else, well, I guess that makes him just a 3rd rate J.B. Stoner. Greg, you're no George Basar. You are, however, a (1) jerk (2) dweeb (3) cave newt [pick 1]. -Miles
jsb@panix.UUCP (J. S. B'ach) (12/11/89)
In article <122@rayssd.ray.com> gmp@quahog.ssd.ray.com (Greg Paris) writes:
)Some of you may be aware that a few easily amused people think it's funny to
)start up cross-posting wars between talk.bizarre and other groups. A typical
)beginning of these wars is that somebody posts an outrageous article to
)talk.bizarre and cross-posts it to the victim group. Naive readers of the
)victim group follow up to the article and the war begins.
I'd hardly call someone who posts an article without first checking where the
followups are directed, a victim. And to remove talk.bizarre as a way to deal
with the behavior of a few persons seems to me to be punishing many who are not
involved. Personally, if Carasso were to vanish from the net, I would consider
a great improvement, or at least, the greatest good for the greatest number.
But I deal with this personal prejudice by having him in my Kill file. Now, I
read rec.pets, one of the 'victim' groups and I read talk.bizarre as well.
What did I do wrong that you should interfere with my ability to read talk.bizarre?
--
rutgers!cmcl2!panix!jsb (or, more reliably, uunet!hombre!dasys1!jsb)
"I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this which, unfortunately, a four line
.signature file is unable to contain."jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (J. Palmer) (12/12/89)
In article <8139@stiatl.UUCP>, meo@stiatl.UUCP (Miles O'Neal) writes: > Mr. Paris claims via email to have over 60 sysadmins to have > written him saying that they are dropping talk.bizarre propagation. I get the strong feeling that at least some sysadmins are no longer propagating talk.bizarre: during the past week, our system has received only 95 articles in t.b, and nearly 300 in rec.humour and comp.sys.ibm.pc. Usually these three groups have about the same number of postings. Either the t.b posters have gone silent (which seems unlikely) or we are not receiving everything at this site. It is confusing and maddening to receive only a few of the articles and not be able to follow a thread completely. So in which group can I read ALL of t.b? -- reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca The Economics Institute for Journalists London, Ontario CANADA N6A 5C2 Voice: (519) 661-3533 FAX: 661-3292 ============================================================================== The New Economics: Overlapping Generalizations & Rationalized Expectorations
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (12/12/89)
Like Miles, I got a piece of email indicating that he had at least 43
systems administrators who agreed with his point of view. This, to me,
reeks of McCarthyism..."I have in my mailbox the names of 43 sytems
administrators who think that talk.bizarre should no longer be propogated".
To you, Mr. Paris, I say put up or shut up. I don't promise to do the same,
but then I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself, although I'm sure that
(somewhere out there...the net is a big place) there are people who agree with
me.
--
David Bedno, Systems Administrator, The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Email: davidbe@sco.COM / ..!{uunet,sun,ucbvax!ucscc,gorn}!sco!davidbe
Phone: 408-425-7222 x5123 Disclaimer: Speaking from SCO but not for SCO.
"[Riverview] had a typical Chicago personality...big, tough, mean and crazy."
- John R. Powersmikey@ontek.UUCP (Michael E. Lee) (12/12/89)
In article <831@ontek.UUCP> I write: | | nothing magical about the name "talk.bizarre". Destroy it's connectivity ^^^^ Yes, I are illiterate. _K_r_i_l_l-_M_a_n Whether you like it or not. mikey@ontek.uucp