olorin@cs.utexas.edu (Dave Weinstein) (12/11/89)
In accordance with the current guidelines, this is an official call for votes regarding the creation of talk.religion.pagan, a moderated newsgroup. Proposed Charter ---------------------------------------------------- The newsgroup talk.religion.pagan shall be for the discussion of issues relating to the pagan community (pagan in this instance is in reference to both the older pagan traditions of Native Americans and other such cultures, as well as the newer "neopagan" traditions of this century). It is explicitly not a place for proselytizing or preaching. The newsgroup shall be moderated, but the moderation is explicitly limited to the weeding out of off-charter messages (it is by no means to extend to the editing of messages, or the removal of messages because of a disagreement between the moderator and any other party). (The moderation is only included because that seems to be the _only_ way to ensure that off-charter attempts to prosyletize are not posted). The proposed moderator is olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Weinstein). In the event that the moderator is unable to continue moderation, a vote (conducted by either the present moderator or by a neutral volunteer) will be held, lasting 21 days, on the newsgroup, to determine the new moderator (the new moderator will need to win merely a plurality of the vote; there will be no run off). Dates of the vote: December 11, 1989 - January 10, 1990 Send votes to: olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu --Dave --- Dave Weinstein olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu GEnie: OLORIN "No one has ever wanted a new computer language. They want an improved Fortran!" --Chuck Moore
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (12/12/89)
This is totally out of order. There has been very little discussion here; the guidelines require that issues on naming and moderation be settled before the call for votes. As it is, an informal poll on these issues was declared last month and is still going on, for roughly one more week. After there is discussion of its results, then it will be in order for someone to call for votes. Until then, hold your damn horses. It's also pretty ridiculous to nominate yourself as moderator. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "Someone to flame us, someone to follow, Someone to shame us, some brave Apollo! Someone to rule us. Someone like you. We want you, Big Brother." -- David Bowie, "Big Brother"
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (12/12/89)
In article <9264@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: | This is totally out of order. There has been very little discussion | here; the guidelines require that issues on naming and moderation be | settled before the call for votes. It looked to me as if discussion had died down and a vote was appropriate. If people don't like the name or moderation of the group they can vote it down. I don't think any of the names are all that good, but this one seems to be as good as any. The moderation and charter of the group are clearly stated, and the proposed moderator is willing to do the job as described. In short I think the vote is appropriate, although that's not a statement for or against the group itslef. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "The world is filled with fools. They blindly follow their so-called 'reason' in the face of the church and common sense. Any fool can see that the world is flat!" - anon
ptgarvin@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Patrick T. Garvin) (12/13/89)
In article <9264@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >This is totally out of order. There has been very little discussion I believe that you are the one that is out of order. If memory serves, Walt did the original call for discussion, and the discussion peoriod lasted for more than thirty days. There has been no discussion for at _least_ a week. >Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com -- "Sometimes, even a blind pig finds an acorn." -- stolen from STella ptgarvin@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu / ptgarvin@uokmax.UUCP | Eris loves you. in the Society: Padraig Cosfhota o Ulad / Barony of Namron, Ansteorra Disclaimer: Fragile. Contents inflammable. Do not use near open flame.
williamt@athena1.Sun.COM (William A. Turnbow) (12/13/89)
In article <9264@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >This is totally out of order. There has been very little discussion >here; the guidelines require that issues on naming and moderation be >settled before the call for votes. As it is, an informal poll on these >issues was declared last month and is still going on, for roughly one >more week. After there is discussion of its results, then it will be >in order for someone to call for votes. Until then, hold your damn >horses. -------------- Other groups have been proposed and already created. I see no evidence of further discussion -- there has been none that I have seen in the past 2 weeks. The discussion is de facto over. I second the call for votes. -wat- --- An it harm none, do what you will.
olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Weinstein) (12/14/89)
In article <9264@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >This is totally out of order. There has been very little discussion >here; the guidelines require that issues on naming and moderation be >settled before the call for votes. As it is, an informal poll on these >issues was declared last month and is still going on, for roughly one >more week. After there is discussion of its results, then it will be >in order for someone to call for votes. Until then, hold your damn >horses. The original call for discussion was made on or about the eleventh of November, and the discussion period was specified as a time period of one month. Initially, there was a period of active discussion, which culminated in a poll on the possible names, and whether or not the group should be moderated. After I posted the results of this poll, the *only* response was an (IMHO) unwarranted flame from you which consisted primarily of attacks on those who were "attempting to rename talk.religion.newage", and on the foolishness of using a poll to determine the groupname (which, considering your newfound love of your poll, I find highly ironic). When I and others pointed out that there had been no discussion of doing anything to talk.religion.newage you immediately called for an informal vote on renaming the newsgroup (with the creation and possible name of another newsgroup as a side question). Quite frankly, this is the second time you flamed me without checking all of the facts. I have been careful to observe the guidelines (the specified discussion period is longer than the guidelines require), and as there have been no posts concerning the discussion in over a week (and the only ones before that concerned your attacks on "renaming" talk.religion.newage), I quite honestly cannot see how there has been any violation of the letter or spirit of the guidelines. > >It's also pretty ridiculous to nominate yourself as moderator. I placed my name in as moderator for several reasons, the most important being that I want to see the group get off the ground, and I am unwilling to ask someone else to do something I would not do myself. The identity of the moderator doesn't really matter (the field of moderation is specifically limited in the charter for that reason). Furthermore, there are rules for the changing of moderators included in the group charter. If you (or anyone else) is unhappy with me as moderator, or someone else would like to take over the job once the group is underway, I will be quite happy to hold a moderator election and step down thereafter. >-- >Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com > --Dave --- Dave Weinstein olorin@walt.cc.utexas.edu GEnie: OLORIN "No one has ever wanted a new computer language. They want an improved Fortran!" --Chuck Moore
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (12/14/89)
She said that he said that she said that tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) said:
-
-It's also pretty ridiculous to nominate yourself as moderator.
Not if you feel you're best suited to do the moderation. And if people
don't agree with you, they'll vote no on the group.
--
David Bedno, Systems Administrator, The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Email: davidbe@sco.COM / ..!{uunet,sun,ucbvax!ucscc,gorn}!sco!davidbe
Phone: 408-425-7222 x5123 Disclaimer: Speaking from SCO but not for SCO.
"You pull the trigger, and the gun fires. Dumb, dumb, dumb." - robertb@sco.COMtim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (12/14/89)
I apologize to all the people who took the time to respond to my survey on the issues of moderation and naming. The results would have been posted on Monday, December 18. However, since the poll has been rudely pre-empted by a premature call for votes, there is obviously no point in my posting the results. Again I apologize, but the actions taken by others were beyond my control. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "Conversion, fastidious Goddess, loves blood better than brick, and feasts most subtly on the human will." - Virginia Woolf, "Mrs. Dalloway"
ptgarvin@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Patrick T. Garvin) (12/15/89)
In article <9286@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >posted on Monday, December 18. However, since the poll has been rudely >pre-empted by a premature call for votes, there is obviously no point >in my posting the results. Bullshit. >-- >Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com > >"Conversion, fastidious Goddess, loves blood better than brick, and feasts > most subtly on the human will." - Virginia Woolf, "Mrs. Dalloway" -- "Sometimes, even a blind pig finds an acorn." -- stolen from STella ptgarvin@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu / ptgarvin@uokmax.UUCP | Eris loves you. in the Society: Padraig Cosfhota o Ulad / Barony of Namron, Ansteorra Disclaimer: Fragile. Contents inflammable. Do not use near open flame.
jvogel@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Jeff Vogel) (12/15/89)
In article <9286@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >However, since the poll has been rudely >pre-empted by a premature call for votes, there is obviously no point >in my posting the results. Translation: I'm gonna' take my ball, and go home. >Again I apologize, but the actions taken by >others were beyond my control. Methinks you should also do some work on that martyr complex. -- | Jeff Vogel, Harvey Mudd College, CA: jvogel@jarthur.claremont.edu |
djones@megatest.UUCP (Dave Jones) (12/15/89)
From article <22198@ut-emx.UUCP>, by walt.cc.utexas.edu!olorin@cs.utexas.edu (Dave Weinstein): > ... It is explicitly not a place for > proselytizing or preaching. The newsgroup shall be > moderated, but the moderation is explicitly limited > to the weeding out of off-charter messages ... I have not responded to any of the previous calls for discussion for several reasons: 1) Although I have posted a few articles to talk.religion. newage, I am not keenly interested in "pagan" issues, (except in the sense of "pagan: one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods," the second definition in my dictionary). 2) There was so little discussion that it seemed that the issue would be dropped for lack of interest, and 3) The suggestion that the group be moderated seemed to have been roundly hooted down. I will, however, vote *against* the creation of this group, or any "talk" group that is to be moderated. An expert moderator can be of great value in a technical group, but in a talk group, is only a censor. I much prefer to skip past the proselytizing and preaching when I choose, rather than to empower a censor to repress it. The proselytizing and preaching, unwelcome as it may be, is not "off-charter". It is in direct response to the ideas being discussed, due to difference of opinion.