avr@cbnewsj.ATT.COM (adam.v.reed) (01/14/90)
In article <21137@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, MICHAL@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Michal Chmielewski) writes: > Call for discussion: soc.culture.polish .... > The language used in the discussion will be English and the > group will be unmoderated. Why not "English and/or Polish"? Much of the appeal of POLAND-L comes from the material posted in Polish, and I hope that this material will be gatewayed to the usenet group. If you don't know whether the Polish language meterial is worth while, please read the following (already posted in POLAND-L and elsewhere on usenet netnews): A few days ago, Lucjan Feldman alerted me to the existence of the Poland-L mailing list. Out of vague interest and idle curiosity I subscribed, not expecting much, since decades of separation from Polish language and culture left me with but a faint memory of its wonders. I am posting this note both to express my gratitude to Lucjan, and to share with all of you my joy in re-discovering the Polish language. For just as English is the ideal language of science, and Italian of music, so Polish is the perfect medium for wit and satire. Polish is what linguists call a "productive" language, in which the fluent speaker or writer is able to craft individual words precisely for their occasion and purpose. Consider the following paragraph (from a recent article by Aleksander Wieczorkowski in Gazeta Wyborcza, posted by Lucjan): Geniusz Karpat, znawca klasykow, postanowil wykorzystac elektryfikacje. W Drakulandii przywilej oswietlania i ogrzewania elektrycznoscia wyroznial straznikow systemu. Ah! "w Drakulandii"! How would one ever translate such an expression into English? Americans do, of course, know of Dracula. But "Drakulandia", combining Dracula with the ending of "Grenlandia", with its remoteness, insularity and ice? "In the isolated and frigid domain of the modern Dracula" does convey the semantics. But the pragmatics, the sheer fiendish delight and excitement of seeing all that meaning in one exact and surprising new word, is untranslatable. Is anyone out there up to writing "The Joy of Polish?" Adam_V_Reed@ATT.com
jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) (01/17/90)
Some while ago a soc.culture.slavic group was proposed. The proposal got derailed by a nitpicking discussion about whether Lithuanians counted. It seems odd to me that we're proposing a group for a specific part of the Slavic world (or of Eastern Europe) before having a more general one. Do we need to create a soc.culture.montenegrin group before we can mention the place, for example? What's happened with the East Asian groups has been a chaotic mess we can well do without replicating elsewhere. A soc.culture.slavic or soc.culture.ee group would help prevent that. Both soc.culture.arabic and soc.culture.celtic have worked reasonably well without tying themselves to a specific nation-state. -- Jack Campin * Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, SCOTLAND. 041 339 8855 x6044 wk 041 556 1878 ho INTERNET: jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk USENET: jack@glasgow.uucp JANET: jack@uk.ac.glasgow.cs PLINGnet: ...mcvax!ukc!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack
MICHAL@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Michal Chmielewski) (01/23/90)
In article <4287@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes: > Some while ago a soc.culture.slavic group was proposed. The proposal got > derailed by a nitpicking discussion about whether Lithuanians counted. It > seems odd to me that we're proposing a group for a specific part of the > Slavic world (or of Eastern Europe) before having a more general one. Do > we need to create a soc.culture.montenegrin group before we can mention the > place, for example? I am proposing this group because the mailing list POLAND-L is being heavily used and we hope that naturally, there is enough support to create soc.culture.polish. Maybe that way, we can also avoid discussion whether Lithuanians count or not. > What's happened with the East Asian groups has been a chaotic mess we can > well do without replicating elsewhere. A soc.culture.slavic or > soc.culture.ee group would help prevent that. Both soc.culture.arabic and > soc.culture.celtic have worked reasonably well without tying themselves to > a specific nation-state. Maybe the name of the group is wrong then ? Anyone want to comment on it ? Maybe talk.politics.polish will be more appropriate than soc.culture.polish ? I just peeped at soc.culture.arabic and lots of the postings are about Islam. > -- > Jack Campin * Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank > Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, SCOTLAND. 041 339 8855 x6044 wk 041 556 1878 ho > INTERNET: jack%cs.glasgow.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk USENET: jack@glasgow.uucp > JANET: jack@uk.ac.glasgow.cs PLINGnet: ...mcvax!ukc!cs.glasgow.ac.uk!jack -- +------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Michal Chmielewski \ The inherent vice of capitalism is the | | Academic Computing Services \ unequal sharing of blessings; the | | University of Kansas \ inherent virtue of socialism is the | | Lawrence, KS 66045 \ equal sharing of miseries. | | Internet: michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu - Winston Churchill | | BitNet : michal@ukanvax.bitnet \ | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
greg@phoenix (greg Nowak) (01/23/90)
In article <21792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, MICHAL@kuhub (Michal Chmielewski) writes: >In article <4287@vanuata.cs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@cs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes: >> seems odd to me that we're proposing a group for a specific part of the >> Slavic world (or of Eastern Europe) before having a more general one. Do >> we need to create a soc.culture.montenegrin group before we can mention the >> place, for example? Not at all. Newsgroup creation is determined by interest. If we Poles can get our own newsgroup, great. If not, we can band together with other slavs until we have a majority. If the Montenegrins want a group, they can band together with the Slovenes, or maybe they'll all have to get together with the Serbians to face political reality. We don't have to wait for a higher-level decision about how to deal with slavs on the net; it evolves naturally according to people's expressed interests. There's no requirement of top-downness for newsgroup creation. > Maybe the name of the group is wrong then ? Anyone want to comment on >it ? Maybe talk.politics.polish will be more appropriate than >soc.culture.polish ? I have a feeling that there will be more effective and informative discussions than would be indicated by a "talk" hierarchy. Besides, who can separate polish politics and culture these days? ...!rutgers!phoenix.princeton.edu!greg Greg Nowak/Phoenix Gang/Princeton NJ 08540
MICHAL@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Michal Chmielewski) (01/24/90)
In article <2381@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP>, witold@enme3b.ucalgary.ca (Witold Jan Owoc) writes: > BTW: > Might be a digest from POLAND-L could be gatewayed to soc.culture.polish ? We plan to set up a gateway POLAND-L <-> soc.culture.polish. We want everyone on POLAND-L to have access to soc.culture.polish, mostly those without UseNET access. And vice versa. -- +------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ | Michal Chmielewski \ The inherent vice of capitalism is the | | Academic Computing Services \ unequal sharing of blessings; the | | University of Kansas \ inherent virtue of socialism is the | | Lawrence, KS 66045 \ equal sharing of miseries. | | Internet: michal@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu - Winston Churchill | | BitNet : michal@ukanvax.bitnet \ | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------------+