maffray@richelieu.rutgers.edu (Frederic Maffray) (01/23/90)
Surprise, this morning. "Newsgroup alt.sex.bondage does not have a spool directory!" ... any longer at the University of Toronto. The following explains it: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 1010 of ont.general: Newsgroups: ont.general Path: jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!me!radio.astro.utoronto.ca!radio.astro!brian From: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) Subject: Objectionable article in alt.sex.bondage Message-ID: <BRIAN.90Jan20160155@radio.astro.utoronto.ca> Sender: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) Organization: Radio Astronomy, Univeristy of Toronto Distribution: ont Date: 20 Jan 90 16:01:55 Recently there was a fantasy posted in alt.sex.bondage that involves the rape and torture of an unwilling victim. I am rmgrouping this newsgroup from our system. You may want to review the matter for yourself. If nothing else, were the new media to find this story I rather suspect that it would make the fuss over rec.humor.funny of a while back look like small potatoes. The article in question is: Message-ID: <1447@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> Brian -- Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca utai!radio.astro!brian glendenn@utorphys.bitnet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Frederic Maffray, Toronto, Ontario.
davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) (01/24/90)
She said that he said that she said that maffray@richelieu.rutgers.edu (Frederic Maffray) said:
-
-Surprise, this morning.
-"Newsgroup alt.sex.bondage does not have a spool directory!"
-... any longer at the University of Toronto.
-
-The following explains it:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-Article 1010 of ont.general:
-From: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning)
-Subject: Objectionable article in alt.sex.bondage
-
-Recently there was a fantasy posted in alt.sex.bondage that involves
-the rape and torture of an unwilling victim. I am rmgrouping this
-newsgroup from our system. You may want to review the matter for
-yourself. If nothing else, were the new media to find this story I
-rather suspect that it would make the fuss over rec.humor.funny of a
-while back look like small potatoes. The article in question is:
-
-Message-ID: <1447@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>
Well, if he's the news administrator of the machine, it's his right.
Take it up with him.
--
David Bedno aka davidbe@sco.COM: Speaking from but not for SCO.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) (01/25/90)
In article <1665@scorn.sco.COM> davidbe@sco.COM (The Cat in the Hat) writes:
=
=She said that he said that she said that maffray@richelieu.rutgers.edu (Frederic Maffray) said:
=-
=-Surprise, this morning.
=-"Newsgroup alt.sex.bondage does not have a spool directory!"
=-... any longer at the University of Toronto.
=-
=-The following explains it:
=-----------------------------------------------------------------------
=-Article 1010 of ont.general:
=-From: brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning)
=-Subject: Objectionable article in alt.sex.bondage
=-
=-Recently there was a fantasy posted in alt.sex.bondage that involves
=-the rape and torture of an unwilling victim. I am rmgrouping this
=-newsgroup from our system. You may want to review the matter for
=-yourself. If nothing else, were the new media to find this story I
=-rather suspect that it would make the fuss over rec.humor.funny of a
=-while back look like small potatoes. The article in question is:
=-
=-Message-ID: <1447@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU>
=
=Well, if he's the news administrator of the machine, it's his right.
=Take it up with him.
=
I did. The response received confirmed the impression previously
aroused by his actions that here we have a jerk of the first water,
in the fine tradition of bookburners and radio broadcast jammers
everywhere.
--
Again, my opinions, not the account furnishers'.
xanthian@well.sf.ca.us xanthian@ads.com (Kent Paul Dolan)
Kent, the (bionic) man from xanth, now available as a build-a-xanthian
kit at better toy stores near you. Warning - some parts proven fragile.
-> METAFONT, TeX, graphics programming done on spec -- (415) 964-4486 <-brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca (Brian Glendenning) (01/26/90)
kpd> =Well, if he's the news administrator of the machine, it's his right. kpd> =Take it up with him. kpd> = kpd> I did. The response received confirmed the impression previously kpd> aroused by his actions that here we have a jerk of the first water, kpd> in the fine tradition of bookburners and radio broadcast jammers kpd> everywhere. I will admit that I was rather abrupt with this poster, for that I apologize. Other than pointing out that flames are rarely one sided I will leave the rest of this personal squabbling aside. Did I do anything wrong? I don't think so for the following reasons. o rmgroup on radio.astro.utoronto.ca The usenet "compact" explicitly allows any given machine to carry any groups or subset of groups desired. o what about a.s.b readers on radio? Well, first off it turns out I was the only reader of a.s.b on radio. In any event, the owners of a machine and their agents can choose policy for their system. For instance I expire alt/soc/talk/rec faster than comp/sci. This is because as a matter of policy we consider the latter groups more important than the former. The arpanet isn't supposed to carry commercial traffic. Catholic libraries likely don't buy many abortion rights books. If you are rude and obnoxious in my house I will ask you to leave, on the street I will ignore you. In other words, you have no right of free speech in my property (this has certain caveats, this situation isn't one of them). o readers on other machines? I have no control over other machines (our remaining downstream feed has not wanted alt fed for a long time). What I did was to inform, via a province wide newsgroup, that a very offensive (my opinion) article was in a.s.b, and they might want to review the situation for themselves. I don't really care how others have dealt with the matter, however I (rightly) suspected that others would like to know. o but this is censorship Yes it is. But it isn't a free speech issue. If I cancel my own subscription to an offensive magazine that's one thing. If the government shuts the magazine down that is something else. If my only power is to convince, not coerce, than this is usually called argument or reasoning. It is censorship in the same trivial sense that it's censorship when Brad Templeton rejects someone's joke for rec.humor.funny. o Book Burner! I can burn my own books. If I come after your books then you have a point. If someone mails you some kiddie porn you're not required to keep it next to your copy of the U.S. constitution you know. Summary: You do what you want on your machine, I'll do what I want on mine. Brian -- Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca utai!radio.astro!brian glendenn@utorphys.bitnet
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (01/26/90)
In article <10617@saturn.ADS.COM> xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) writes: | I did. The response received confirmed the impression previously | aroused by his actions that here we have a jerk of the first water, | in the fine tradition of bookburners and radio broadcast jammers | everywhere. You obviously have no idea of what freedom of speech is about whatever. The fact that someone is free to post a story glorifying a manager using his influence over an employee to commit rape, kidnapping, illegal imprisonment, torture, sexual harasment, and sodomy does not mean that someone is a jerk because they refuse to carry the posting or the group. No one has done any "bookburning" yet. No one has issued a cancel on the article. A number of sites have deleted the article. A few have deleted the group. Choice works both ways. You have the right to write what you wish, but there is no obligation of a publisher (physical or electronic) to carry anything you write. No one has disputed the right of the author to generate such material or of the reader to posses it. This does not imply that any system or other person has an obligation to distribute such material. You have the right to chose what you read. We have the right to do the same. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me