harnad@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (S. R. Harnad) (01/20/90)
Proposal to create a moderated Usenet group called
sci.psycoloquy.moderated
An International, Interdisciplinary Forum for Scholarly Communication
---
I have just taken over the editorship of the Bitnet Psychology
Newsletter (earlier called "Psychnet") and would now like to establish
it also as a moderated newsgroup on Usenet. Below is my first editorial
about plans for the group. The only thing that I would add is that the
group is, and will remain, a strictly noncommercial forum for
information exchange among psychologists (and scholars and scientists
from related disciplines). Distributing it regularly to sites through
Usenet seems a more efficient use of the airwaves than an email list,
given that there are about 25,000 academic psychologists in the US,
probably near that number in the rest of the world, and countless
students and other interested disciplines.
I will be moderating the scientific discussion; co-moderating the
group with me will be Perry London, Dean of the Graduate School of
Applied and Professional Psychology at Rutgers University, with the
assistance of Cary Cheriniss, Associate Professor in that School. They
will be handling postings related to clinical psychology. The American
Psychological Association has also agreed to sponsor the list on an
experimental basis for eight months. This will pay a graduate student
for doing weekly updates on the bitnet listerver, where we hope to
build up the email addresses of all psychologists worldwide.
Below is a revised copy of the first editorial, which gives further
information about the list.
-----
To Bitnet Newsletter (PSYCOLOQUY) Recipients (~1300 individuals and
redistribution sites):
This is just to let you know that this list is about to come under new
editorship. We all owe many thanks to Bob Morecock for having founded
the Bitnet Psychology Newsletter (originally "Psychnet," soon to
undergo yet another name change to PSYCOLOQUY). He has performed a
valuable service to the field of psychology in getting the list started
and sustaining it through its first few years in an era in which this
medium will become inceasingly important in scholarly communication.
There are some rather ambitious plans under consideration for this
list. Academic email networks can be much more than bulletin boards for
meetings, abstracts and notices, as most of them are. They are a
potentially revolutionary medium for disseminating and discussing new
findings and ideas -- "Scholarly Skywriting." The global scope and
lightening pace of intellectual exchanges in this medium are uncannily
well suited to the thought processes of the creative mind -- or so I
believe, at any rate, and this hypothesis will soon be put to the
test.
Along with the notices that will continue to appear, and that you are
encouraged to continue to submit, there will be demo's of skywriting.
At first they will be circulated to the list as a whole. Then they
will only be archived; to continue receiving them you will either have
to request the volumes from listserv or to sign up for special
sublists devoted to the topic under discussion. Occasional summaries
or samples will be sent to the list as a whole from topics whose
discussions endure. [This procedure may be modified for the Usenet
group.]
Anyone can contribute to the scholarly discussion, but the submissions
will be moderated by [Perry London and] me, and we will have to exercise
selectivity where necessary, for reasons of length, relevance, quality
or tone (skywriting discussions must be polite and dispassionate).
In addition, I am actively looking for a list co-editor to handle
contributions bearing on clinical practice and professional matters in
psychology. Someone is under consideration now, but don't hesitate to
send nominations. The individual should be a professional psychologist
with some stature in the field, preferably with editorial or
administrative experience. (Note that this is not a paid position, but
a service we are contributing in order to develop this new medium.)
[Perry London of GSAP has since agreed to do it, with Cary Cheriniss,
but we are still looking for subeditors for the many subspecialties of
psychology and allied fields: perception, cognition, personality/social
psychology, development, operant/classical learning, comparative,
physiological, etc.]
Two more matters for now:
(1) The bitnet list's subscibership is currently about 1300, which is
not small for an email list but microscopic in relation to the size of
the world psychological community. I encourage all subscribers to
recruit new subscribers to the list (feel free to capture and circulate
this text to others by email). The procedure for adding one's name
automatically to the list is to send mail to Listserv@tcsvm.bitnet (or
@finhutc) with
SUB PSYCH Firstname Lastname
on the first text line. To unsubscribe:
UNSUB PSYCH (name not required)
(2) Negotiations are currently underway with some psychological
organizations for some support for maintaining the list. The services
of the editors will continue to be voluntary, but some hired help will
be needed for adding and updating the address file and bundling and
posting accepted material. [APA has since agreed to sponsor
PSYCOLOQUY on a trial basis.]
Your reactions and suggestions are welcome. Looking forward to
a rewarding collaboration,
Stevan Harnad
Department of Psychology
Princeton University
Princeton NJ 08544
--
Stevan Harnad Department of Psychology Princeton University
harnad@clarity.princeton.edu srh@flash.bellcore.com
harnad@elbereth.rutgers.edu harnad@pucc.bitnet (609)-921-7771rshelby@ms.uky.edu (Richard Shelby) (01/20/90)
In article <9001191751.AA12839-mod@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>, harnad@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. R. Harnad) writes: > Proposal to create a moderated newsgroup called: > sci.psycoloquy.moderated > An International, Interdisciplinary Forum for Scholarly Communication > > I have just taken over the editorship of the Bitnet Psychology > Newsletter (earlier called "Psychnet") and would now like to establish > it also as a moderated newsgroup on Usenet. The Bitnet Psychology Newsletter is a high-quality mailing list and moving it to Usenet is an excellant idea, as the move would make the information more accessible to academics. The psycoloquy would allow scholarly material on psychology to be available on the net and would be a forum free of the psychobabble, misinformation and general nonsense which tends to be perpetrated and perpetuated on other Usenet groups. Psycoloquy would also allow for cooperative examination and collaboration in psychology. Professor Harnad would be a capable manager for a high-quality newsgroup. -- Richard L. Shelby rshelby@ms.uky.edu Department of Health Services rshelby@ukma.BITNET University of Kentucky {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!rshelby
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (01/20/90)
In article <13106@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>, harnad@phoenix (S. R. Harnad) writes: >Proposal to create a moderated Usenet group called > sci.psycoloquy.moderated >An International, Interdisciplinary Forum for Scholarly Communication >I have just taken over the editorship of the Bitnet Psychology >Newsletter (earlier called "Psychnet") and would now like to establish >it also as a moderated newsgroup on Usenet. Below is my first editorial >about plans for the group. In my opinion Harnad is psychologically unsuited to the job of moderating anything, and should *NOT* be the moderator of this group if formed. He is the sort of person who assumes anyone using a four-letter word is mentally ill, and his remedy for this is to get that person and anyone else in the line of fire thrown off the net if possible, by means of whatever kind of libel seems suitable. -- ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Garnetgangster/Berkeley CA 94720 "We never make assertions, Miss Taggart," said Hugh Akston. "That is the moral crime peculiar to our enemies. We do not tell--we *show*. We do not claim--we *prove*." H Akston, the last of the advocates of reason
peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) (01/21/90)
[ Gene thinks the proposed moderator is likely to be a problem because he
has irrational responses to scatological language. ]
Well, Gene, how many four-letter-words typically show up in postings to
moderated groups? Inappropriate affect in this somewhat restricted area is
unlikely to be a problem.
The name, now, is awfully redundant and confusing. How about at least dumping
the ".moderated" suffix?
--
_--_|\ Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <peter@ficc.uu.net>.
/ \
\_.--._/ Xenix Support -- it's not just a job, it's an adventure!
v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (01/21/90)
In article <Y871P43xds13@ficc.uu.net>, peter@ficc (Peter da Silva) writes: >[ Gene thinks the proposed moderator is likely to be a problem because he > has irrational responses to scatological language. ] >Well, Gene, how many four-letter-words typically show up in postings to >moderated groups? Inappropriate affect in this somewhat restricted area is >unlikely to be a problem. My point is that Harnad's reaction to Michael Ellis' use of words such as "fecal" was so excessive and, so to speak, anal-retentive that I wonder if he is up to the job of moderation. His prose style is always stuffy and prolix, as if he were writing a journal article whose editors enforced a high boredom content. A natural or vigorous style would be, I suspect, anathema. This is based in part on the *fact* that he accused Mr. Ellis of being mentally unbalanced because of his use of words like "fecal". Of course, I have a personal grudge which I should be up-front about. Harnad's writing to the sysadmin here at Berkeley, complaining that insane street people were posting from Berkeley accounts, led to me having to convince people that no, I wasn't breaking into other people's accounts nor forging letters, despite whatever it was Harnad was saying. His behavior was irresponsible, libelous and contrary to the spirit and best interests of the net. I do *not* think he should be allowed to moderate a newsgroup. -- ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 Fifty flippant frogs / Walked by on flippered feet And with their slime they made the time / Unnaturally fleet.
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/22/90)
Apart from being hard to type, "psycoloquy" is one of the ugliest examples of wordplay I've ever seen. "Psychology" is perfectly adequate, and more consistent with the straightforward naming of the existing sci groups. The group is probably a good idea; we've frequently discussed in sci.psychology and here the unfortunate fact that people who know nothing about psychology, or who support bogus mental disciplines claiming to be psychology, have been frequent contributors to sci.psychology and have seemingly driven out most of the academics. Moderation would be one answer; previous proposals along these lines failed only because no one volunteered to be moderator. I would like to see a co-moderation approach, with articles mailed to a central drop, then routed randomly to one of a group of moderators. Rejected articles should be archived, and all rejections should be explained. In short, the approach of soc.feminism should be used. The proposed moderator does seem to be rather limited in his understanding of non-staid writing styles, so there should be some alternatives who are less stuffy. Genuine does not have to mean boring. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com FROM THE FOOL FILE: "American women, especially some of those on the net, might profit by being less concerned with their careers and more concerned with getting a good, old fashioned roll in the hay." -- William J. Fallon, wjf@cbnews.att.com, on soc.women (also uses the alias Walter J. Ficklestein)
learn@igloo.scum.com (Bill HMRP Vajk) (01/23/90)
In article <17735@agate.berkeley.edu> Gene W. Smith writes: > In article <Y871P43xds13@ficc.uu.net> Peter da Silva writes: > >[ Gene thinks the proposed moderator is likely to be a problem because he > > has irrational responses to scatological language. ] > Of course, I have a personal grudge which I should be up-front > about. Harnad's writing to the sysadmin here at Berkeley, > complaining that insane street people were posting from Berkeley > accounts, led to me having to convince people that no, I wasn't > breaking into other people's accounts nor forging letters, > despite whatever it was Harnad was saying. The truth, Gene, is that there is a poor creature, lacking many of the emotional abilities we take for granted, posting from Berkeley. And that person has been declared incompetent from time to time through her life, and locked away in mental institutions, and lived on the street, as stated by this person themselves. Further that person had been thrown off two systems previously, and left several others in a fit of personal pique totally unwarrented given all the surrounding circumstances. Whatever the internal politics of the circumstances you are mentioning are strictly a local problem. Internal Berkeley problems are hardly a net issue, even if the trigger invoking a manifestation of internal strife happens to come from the net.at.large. Ultimately, Harnad lost control. Happens to all of us, if pushed too far. And I'll tellya first hand that the Berkeley client is capable of bringing out the absolute worse in anyone, almost on demand. It seems that you are experiencing very much the same feelings towards Harnad that many many usenet folks have felt towards that Berkeley client. > His behavior was irresponsible, libelous and contrary to the spirit > and best interests of the net. This line was the one that got my atention and prompted me to respond. If this weren't actually a serious statement, it would be really funny. Some of the best contributors to the net can easily be, and regularly are, classified as irresponsible, (they) make libelous statements, and behave in wasy contrary to the spirit and the best interests of the net. And so went the focus of the infamous Brahms gang, among others. But damn, we had fun... And were we to include the overkill in the attacks on PORTAL (tm) users, and the results thereto, we could make quite a similar case for one of the most missed of all usenet notable persons. > I do *not* think he should be allowed to moderate a newsgroup. Most certainly you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect your stating it with such elegance. I do not, however, believe any of the reasons you've stated present a sufficient cause to dismiss the individual from consideration for the position. I am not personally involved sufficiently to be aware of all the ins and outs, those nitty gritty details which keep the soap-opera atmosphere of certain aspects of the net going. But I do wish to offer the following generalities for consideration in this matter. Given that you consider the individual to be a troublemaker, there are two schools of thought regarding the best resolution. One is the aproach you have taken, that being to excise as much as possible the source of trouble from the media. One might note that the Berkeley client discussed as part of these proceedings was similarly though much more severely excised from the net on more than one occasion, yet came coming back again and again, till a solution was achieved with an account that was totally secure against further actions. And that person has as much of a free run with words including whatever venom is desired as any sentient creature, in spite of the history of hatred so well entrenched. The aternative solution, working well in a majority of cases, is to give the troublemaker a helping hand and some responsibility. I'll gladly send you the name and phone number of an individual who has historically had splendid success in many such cases. On the individual and the assignment, I have no particular commentary in terms of a "vote." But I saw your notes, Gene, and I felt it necessary to comment, while offering you a compliment on your forthright candidness regarding the circumstances and the individual. It was an exercise in honesty I would like to see repeated much more frequently on the net. Bill.etc | Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has | always been the systematic organization of hatreds. | - Henry Brooks Adams
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (01/24/90)
In article <1559@igloo.scum.com>, learn@igloo (Bill HMRP Vajk) writes: >The truth, Gene, is that there is a poor creature, lacking many of the >emotional abilities we take for granted, posting from Berkeley. In case anyone is confused by this, Bill Vajk evidently means Mark Ethan Smith. Mark Ethan Smith has nothing to do with the Berkeley mathematics department, nothing to do with Michael Ellis, nothing to do with "scholrly-discussion" or Harnad's proposed group, and is a very very red herring. >Given that you consider the individual to be a troublemaker, there are >two schools of thought regarding the best resolution. One is the aproach >you have taken, that being to excise as much as possible the source of >trouble from the media. I'm not suggesting Harnad be censored, I am suggesting he is a poor choice as censor. -- ucbvax!garnet!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 Imagine what the world would be like if football was a worthy ritual performed in stadiums but mathematics was a misunderstood activity ignored by almost all.
dan@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Dan Schlitt) (02/02/90)
In article <JYF1C2Axds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
:
:So:
:
:sci.psychology.digest Topics related to psychology. (Moderated)
:
:And the mailing-list side can keep the amusing play on words, PSYCOLOQUY.
I agree that this is a good name for the group on the net. We don't
need additional amusement. For that we have news.groups.
--
Dan Schlitt Manager, Science Division Computer Facility
dan@sci.ccny.cuny.edu City College of New York
dan@ccnysci.uucp New York, NY 10031
dan@ccnysci.bitnet (212)690-6868tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (02/04/90)
In article <JYF1C2Axds13@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: >sci.psychology.digest Topics related to psychology. (Moderated) > >And the mailing-list side can keep the amusing play on words, PSYCOLOQUY. In article <1990Feb2.142738.20168@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> dan@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Dan Schlitt) writes: >I agree that this is a good name for the group on the net. We don't >need additional amusement. For that we have news.groups. So, I believe that makes six people who have objected to the absurd name "sci.psycoloquy.moderated", and no one has said they liked it except the person who proposed it, the would-be moderator, Steven Harnad. However, Harnad has not responded at all on the naming issue. It is anything but a positive sign when a would-be moderator refuses to discuss the concerns of his readership. I am shifting towards opposition to Harnad as a moderator because of this. In any case, the moderator of news.announce.newsgroups should reject any call for votes on sci.psycoloquy.moderated, since the discussion period must establish consensus on naming, and the consensus is decidedly against sci.psycoloquy.moderated. I expect Harnad will go ahead and try to post a call for votes for his preferred name despite its unpopularity; this would be an attempt to circumvent the prescribed newsgroup creation process and should not be cooperated with. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com FROM THE FOOL FILE: "Women's wages are 56% of men's -- but that's not necessarily evidence of discrimination in employment." -- Clayton Cramer in news.groups and soc.women
lady@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Lee Lady) (02/05/90)
I hate to agree with Tim Maroney on anything, but I guess this latest is
an example of the fact that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
I think this proposed newsgroup is an excellent and a very exciting idea,
and I have seen nothing so far to make me object to Harnad as a moderator.
However I think it's important to try and preserve some semblance of
rational structure in the newsgroup hierarchies, and so I would reluctantly
vote NO on the newsgroup under the proposed name. I would vote YES to
any name of the form sci.psychology.*.
--
Lee Lady
Dept of Mathematics lady@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu
University of Hawaii lady@uhccux.bitnet
Honolulu, HI 96822 {uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!lady