es@sinix.UUCP (Dr. Sanio) (02/28/90)
On behalf of friends having only read access to the net (so far) I want to ask for the possibility of creating a group dealing with paleontology. Different from other discussions, I don't believe the placement under sci being in question. The group should have the issue to spread informations about findings, new results and/or interpretations of those results of paleontological research. It should have the primary issue to exchange informations within the scientific community involved in that topic (including students), the secondary one to answer questions of the interested public. I would appreciate comments about the following questions: - does the request for creation seem justified - would there be enough traffic to make it worth while Any further comments/hints/criticism appreciated as well regards, es
ethan@ut-emx.UUCP (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac) (03/01/90)
In article <1031@athen.sinix.UUCP>, es@sinix.UUCP (Dr. Sanio) writes: > On behalf of friends having only read access to the net (so far) I want to ask > for the possibility of creating a group dealing with paleontology. > ........ > I would appreciate comments about the following questions: > - does the request for creation seem justified > - would there be enough traffic to make it worth while I would be very interested in reading such a group. I am not likely to contribute and cannot comment on the likely level of traffic. I think a lot of people have a general interest in the topic who are not paleontologists, and who have no interest in other biological topics. The charter of the group should explicitly exclude creationist discussions, which will otherwise overwhelm the group. There is already a talk. group covering this with a very low signal/noise ratio. -- I'm not afraid of dying Ethan Vishniac, Dept of Astronomy, Univ. of Texas I just don't want to be {charm,ut-sally,emx,noao}!utastro!ethan there when it happens. (arpanet) ethan@astro.AS.UTEXAS.EDU - Woody Allen (bitnet) ethan%astro.as.utexas.edu@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU These must be my opinions. Who else would bother?
mwj@lanl.gov (William Johnson) (03/02/90)
In article <25349@ut-emx.UUCP>, ethan@ut-emx.UUCP (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac) writes: > In article <1031@athen.sinix.UUCP>, es@sinix.UUCP (Dr. Sanio) writes: > > On behalf of friends having only read access to the net (so far) I want to ask > > for the possibility of creating a group dealing with paleontology. > > ........ > > I would appreciate comments about the following questions: > > - does the request for creation seem justified > > - would there be enough traffic to make it worth while > > I would be very interested in reading such a group. I am not > likely to contribute and cannot comment on the likely level of > traffic. I think a lot of people have a general interest in > the topic who are not paleontologists, and who have no interest > in other biological topics. I'd probably contribute occasionally, having dabbled in the field, but really: there's already a group (sci.misc) for "other" scientific topics, and if there were to be enough postings on paleontology to justify a separate newsgroup, surely at least one or two sci.misc postings would have addressed paleontological issues lately. I have seen none. Must we have yet *another* sci group to divide the readership of existing ones and generate flamage? > The charter of the group should explicitly exclude creationist discussions, > which will otherwise overwhelm the group. There is already a talk. > group covering this with a very low signal/noise ratio. Amen, Ethan. But I can't even conceive of a charter compelling enough to prevent this from happening. The only way would be if the proposed s.p group was moderated -- and *I'm* sure not going to touch that one ... So "No" to sci.paleontology, at least until sci.bio and sci.misc demonstrate that there's a compelling need for the group. Followups to news.groups, please. -- Bill Johnson | Anticipating computer news systems by Los Alamos National Laboratory | 1900 years, Juvenal wrote: "Difficile (mwj@beta.lanl.gov) | est saturam non scribere."
unccab@calico.med.unc.edu (Charles Balan) (03/02/90)
In article <25349@ut-emx.UUCP> ethan@ut-emx.UUCP (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac) writes: >I would be very interested in such a group. I would not be >likely to contribute and cannot comment on the likely level of >traffic. I also would like to see such a group. I am not a paleontologist, but I do use paleontology for my research in other fields. >The charter of the group should explicitly exclude creationist discussions, >which will otherwise overwhelm the group. ^^^^^^^^^^^ I am saddened that someone would find it necessary to exclude any reasonable postings which might contribute to the value of the group. Just because there is a talk group about creationism doesn't mean that creationist ideas should not be discussed in a sci.paleontology group. I believe, if I am not mistaken, that there has been valid work done by so-called "creationists" in the field. Since paleontology is such an interesting field, there will certainly be disagreements within the field, no? Why shouldn't I ask that Darwinist rhetoric be excluded from the group? What useful purpose would that serve except to exclude challenging discussion? If the non-creationists are unable to meet the challenge of creationist thought, then perhaps there should be 2 groups: sci.paleontology.darwin and s.p.creationist. The above does not mean that I am a creationist, only that I support the free exchange of ideas in order to learn more about our universe and ourselves. Charles Balan UNCCAB@med.unc.edu , UNCCAB@uncmed.uucp , UNCCAB@unc.bitnet %%%%%%%%%%%%% A Witty Saying Proves Nothing - Voltaire %%%%%%%%%%%%
gsh7w@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg S. Hennessy) (03/02/90)
In article <171@uncmed.med.unc.edu> unccab@uncmed.med.unc.edu (Charles Balan) writes: # I am saddened that someone would find it necessary to exclude any # reasonable postings which might contribute to the value of the group. # Just because there is a talk group about creationism doesn't mean that # creationist ideas should not be discussed in a sci.paleontology group. There is already a news group for discussions between evolutionists and creations, talk.origins. The majority of the creationist that post to t.o quickly show that they have little or know understanding of science, but are mainly motivated by religious views. While I have no objection per se of creationist entering the discussions, previous experiance leads me to beleive that the discussions would not be up to what we hope for a science group, and we might be left with another sci.skeptic disappointment. I feel that given the history of the creationist in t.o, it would be better to keep this aspect in a talk group. (Why do I feel a flame attack coming on?) -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia USPS Mail: Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA Internet: gsh7w@virginia.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
bob@verdix.com (Bob Boulanger) (03/02/90)
Sounds good to me. I'm not a paleontologist either, but the forum would certainly be interesting, and useful for my research. Bob ********************************************************************* * Bob Boulanger Verdix Corporation * * bob@verdix.com 1600 NW Compton Drive * * (503)690-1116(w) (503)357-4644(h) Aloha, OR 97006 *
gsmith@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gene W. Smith) (03/02/90)
In article <171@uncmed.med.unc.edu>, unccab@calico (Charles Balan) writes: > Just because there is a talk group about creationism doesn't mean that > creationist ideas should not be discussed in a sci.paleontology group. I think any paleontology group would have to be moderated. We already have talk.origins, and we don't need this grief. -- ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720 "*That* the world is, is the mystical." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
unccab@calico.med.unc.edu (Charles Balan) (03/02/90)
In article <2664@hudson.acc.virginia.edu> gsh7w@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg S. Hennessy) writes: >There is already a news group for discussions between evolutionists >and creations, talk.origins. The majority of the creationist that post >to t.o quickly show that they have little or know understanding of >science, but are mainly motivated by religious views. While this may be so [I don't receive talk.*] I certainly don't believe that apparently low-quality postings of any group categorically disqualifies their cause. I have seen poor postings in sci.physics, sci.lang, etc., yet I wouldn't say that their poor rhetoric automatically disproves their theories or beliefs. I am hopeful that this is not what you meant. I can understand that there may not be many scientists who are scientific creationists who post to the group. But we all know that the actual number of Ph.D's who post to the net in general is rather low in comparison to the general population (this is my assumption). By the way, most of the scientific creationism material I have read doesn't mention any religious views or dogma, only theories on origins. >While I have no >objection per se of creationist entering the discussions, previous >experiance leads me to beleive that the discussions would not be up to >what we hope for a science group, I am glad that you feel this way. If I may restate this, you are saying that you would like the postings in sci.paleontology to be of high quality, whether or not they are from scientific creationists. I must say we are in complete agreement here. >(Why do I feel a flame attack coming on?) I am sure you can't mean me! I don't practice flaming, I would end up burning my own fingers! :) Let us not turn this into a debate on theories of origins, let's just discuss the means of getting sci.paleontology started, if there is enough interest by the net.users. Charles Balan UNCCAB@med.unc.edu , UNCCAB@uncmed.uucp , UNCCAB@unc.bitnet %%%%%%%%%%%%% A Witty Saying Proves Nothing - Voltaire %%%%%%%%%%%%
mikel@taumet.UUCP (Michael S. Lueke) (03/03/90)
In article <1031@athen.sinix.UUCP> es@athen.UUCP (Dr. Sanio) writes: >On behalf of friends having only read access to the net (so far) I want to ask >for the possibility of creating a group dealing with paleontology. > I would be very interested in reading a newsgroup on paleontolology. I also believe that evolution vs. creation discussions should be left out of the newsgroup. Such a newsgroup "talk.origins" already exists so there is no need to waste bandwidth on that issue. I vote "YES". Michael S. Lueke Taumetric Corp., San Diego uunet!taumet!mikel