emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (09/02/90)
[this has also been sent to news.announce.newgroups]
comp.text.sgml has passed, 137 to 13. this is a mass acknowlegement.
the group will be created soon. I hope to work out a mailing list
arrangement etc. once the dust has settled.
the text of the original call for votes follows, slightly edited.
...the newsgroup 'comp.text.sgml', to
discuss the ISO 8879 'Standard Generalized Markup Language', systems
which use it, markup languages, and structured documents in general....
Substantive discussions about SGML and related issues are going on in
'comp.text' right now.
The text of the original call for discussion can be fetched from the
site "sgml.math.lsa.umich.edu" in the directory "/pub/sgml". There's
also a brief bibliography of SGML courtesy of Robin Cover, and I hope
to put more documents & software there as they become available.
Details:
the name:
comp.text.sgml. It will be a challenge to draw in sufficient
expertise in this area to make for good discussion. My sense
is that a group that was concerned just with "structured
documents" in some nebulous sense would not generate the
quality of discussion needed to get SGML experts to be interested.
the discussion:
one initial task, already started, is to figure out who it is
exactly who is using SGML and what purposes they are putting
it it. Somewhat to my surprise, I've discovered an ANSI
committee (X3V1.8M) charged with the missions of creating SGML
document type definitions for hypermedia/time-based documents
("Hytime") and a Standard Music Descrption Language (SMDL).
Who knows what all else is out there, but if the group gets
going I'm pretty sure that SGML stuff will appear out of the
woodwork.
another goal on my list is to bring together people who have
texts that they have marked up, or are marking up, and to
figure out reasonable strategies for doing this. I have a
couple of large collections of text (mostly old netnews
articles and old e-mail) which I'd like to mark up in some
sensible way for further analysis.
the alternatives:
comp.text is more or less the newsgroup of choice these days
for SGML, with roughly one article in 5 referring to SGML in
some way. That's not a great enough density to attract the
small number of SGML experts who don't have time to wade
through postings about troff macros, scanners, or Japanese TeX
and non-linear glue.
there is no mailing list devoted to SGML. Questions about it,
and other information which would be appropriate to
comp.text.sgml, are scattered around in a bunch of different
lists and newsgroups. I expect to selectively quote from
these other lists at the start of the group to try to draw the
discussion in.
the scope of the discussion:
there are other standards for encoding structured documents,
including ODA, the ISO Office Documents Architecture. There
is the possibility of a certain tension between proponents of
these two standards. The applications that I personally have
in mind for my needs would seem to fit SGML better than ODA.
So, when I started agitating about this group a few months ago
ODA never crossed my mind. I would hope that 'comp.text.sgml'
would be broad enough to encompass both the picayune details
of SGML and the more general issues of document structuring.
There are limitations to SGML which will be made apparent by
successful uses of ODA, and vice versa. I expect the group to
be able to handle intelligent discussion of both.
the best thing about standards:
there are so many to choose from
followups to comp.text (put SGML in the Subject) or news.groups for
procedural matters.
Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu>
comp.text.sgml ISO 8879 SGML, structured documents, markup languages
yes votes 137
"richard_busch.sd"@xerox.com
ab@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu
akindele@loria.crin.fr
alberta!oha!tony
andrew@brownvm.brown.edu
andrews@b.psc.edu
andy%maximus.uucp@uunet.uu.net
andy%mks.uucp@watmath.waterloo.edu
anita@tnoibbc.ibbc.tno.nl
anne.brueggemann-klein%ruf.uni-freiburg.dbp.de@relay.cs.net
ath@prosys.se
beck@cs.cornell.edu
bill_von_hagen@transarc.com
bin@primate.wisc.edu
blarsen@usit.uio.no
bob@rel.mi.org
bobs@sco.com
bowe@osf.org
bporter@world.std.com
brennan@dg-rtp.dg.com
brown%dlogics.uucp@uunet.uu.net
cape%ncrcis%ncrnd3.stpaul.ncr.com.uucp@relay.cs.net
cargo@cherry.cray.com
caywood@teb.larc.nasa.gov
chenevoy@loria.crin.fr
chip%tct.uucp@uunet.uu.net
chuckp%bach@uunet.uu.net
cjoslyn@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu
cooker@rice.edu
craig@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
cso@cis.ohio-state.edu
curt%stingray%mead%uccba%decuac%cvl%mimsy%uunet.uucp@mailrus.cc.umich.edu
dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca
danny@turing-institute.ac.uk
david.wright@stl.stc.co.uk
david@twg.com
dgil@pa.reuter.com
dja%cyber%mead%uccba%decuac%cvl%mimsy%uunet.uucp@mailrus.cc.umich.edu
djbpitt@unix.cis.pitt.edu
drlewi1@dublin.pacbell.com
dupuy@hudson.cs.columbia.edu
dwood@watdragon.waterloo.edu
edb@fairport.eng.ileaf.com
efreeman@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
eibo@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
el407011@brownvm.brown.edu
emcguire@cadfx.ccad.uiowa.edu
ericb@libdev.dartmouth.edu
erik@naggum.uu.no
fendt%ecrc.de%ames%sharkey.uucp@umich.edu
gamiddleton@watmath.waterloo.edu
george@hyper.lap.upenn.edu
gil@banyan.banyan.com
gja@capgsb.be
glenn@ila.com
goer@sophist.uchicago.edu
greg@cheers.uop.edu
gregb%warlock1.uucp@uunet.uu.net
gvr@cs.brown.edu
harlanb%zelda.sandiego.ncr.com@relay.cs.net
hin@tnoibbc.ibbc.tno.nl
hwt@bnr.ca
jac@paul.rutgers.edu
jbarnes@cis.ohio-state.edu
jcs@gvlv3.gvl.unisys.com
jds@cs.umd.edu
jfm@ux.acs.umn.edu
jht@suned1.nswses.navy.mil
jkp@cs.hut.fi
john@minster.york.ac.uk
josh@osf.org
jsl@barn.com
justin@lspsun1.epfl.ch
kgilders%ncrcis%ncrnd3.stpaul.ncr.com.uucp@relay.cs.net
koontz@alpha.bldr.nist.gov
kreed@enh.nist.gov
lac@ecs.southampton.ac.uk
lane%umt.uucp@apple.com
lees@frith.egr.msu.edu
leilabd@syma.sussex.ac.uk
lou%vax.oxford.ac.uk@pucc.princeton.edu
lwv27%cas@pucc.princeton.edu
lynne_price.parc@xerox.com
marc@txsil.lonestar.org
marichal@fan.gipsi.fr
mark@drd.com
mattf@cac.washington.edu
mckay@prc.unisys.com
mcs@iris.brown.edu
mmac@pegasus.com
muller@phoenix.src.umd.edu
nathan%kelly%vitec.uucp@uunet.uu.net
nhess@us.oracle.com
nxh%kamikaze%mead%uccba%decuac%cvl%mimsy%uunet.uucp@mailrus.cc.umich.edu
oc@vmp.com
oyang@bruce.cs.monash.oz.au
oz@nexus.yorku.ca
paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
pekka.nikander@ngs.fi
philippe.louarn@irisa.fr
pk@tut.fi
plaut%sc2a.unige.ch@pucc.princeton.edu
prc@erbe.se
ram%claude.cs.umb.edu@relay.cs.net
randy@m2xenix.psg.com
raymond%tpubs2.cambridge.ncr.com@relay.cs.net
rdkeys@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu
rft@sdimax2.mitre.org
richard%net.ebt.anrj.br@uicvm.uic.edu
rmackenz%cipc1.dayton.ncr.com@relay.cs.net
rmm%unidot.uucp@uunet.uu.net
robin@txsil.lonestar.org
samg@savant.uchicago.edu
spqr@ecs.southampton.ac.uk
steff%adler.philosophie.uni-stuttgart.de@relay.cs.net
steinar.haug@elab-runit.sintef.no
stripes@eng.umd.edu
stuart@orac.hq.ileaf.com
sylvain@cli53an.edf.fr
teexdwu@ioe.lon.ac.uk
tom%scocan.uucp@uunet.uu.net
tozer%esseye.uucp@uunet.uu.net
tvf%ccird2%cci632%rochester.uucp@harvard.harvard.edu
twl@cs.brown.edu
utdoe!lubo
utdoe!tak
vanover@atc.boeing.com
var@iris.brown.edu
wayne@teemc.tmc.mi.org
wnp%cossun%iiasa.uucp@relay.eu.net
worsch%ira.uka.de@relay.cs.net
wpg@mendel.acc.virginia.edu
wsk@hpclpa.corp.hp.com
wwm%pmsmam.uucp@umich.edu
xanthian%zorch.sf-bay.org%ames%sharkey.uucp@umich.edu
xxuu475@frio.chpc.utexas.edu
No votes:
ado%elsie.uucp@ncifcrf.gov
bruce@sonyd1.broadcast.sony.com
foster@sequoia.cray.com
jjc%jclark.uucp@relay.eu.net
john%basho.uucp@cis.ohio-state.edu
kedgar@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu
lee%sqarc.sq.com%uunet%mailrus.uucp@umich.edu
mitchell@community-chest.mitre.org
morris@casee.enet.dec.com
psrc@mtunq.att.com
root%quark.wv.tek.com@relay.cs.net
rps@decvax.dec.com
thomas@topaz.jpl.nasa.gov