jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) (12/07/90)
This article is a CALL FOR VOTES to create a newsgroup within the comp.sys hierarchy for the Convergent Technologies, Inc. systems marketed as the AT&T UnixPC/7300/3B1, the Convergent Safari, the Motorola Miniframe, and perhaps others... During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. If successful, these groups would replace the unix-pc hierarchy. A tangential discussion to reorganize comp.sys.att errupted during the process but a consensus was not reached on that issue. However, the reorganization discussion did stir the water enough to cast some doubts about the final resting place for this newsgroup. Prompted by many suggestions and the current discussions taking place within news.groups regarding "multi-way votes", I will test the flexibility of the guidelines and the wisdom of the net by also making this article a CALL FOR VOTES to choose the name of the newgroups. This posting contains a charter for the new groups, a proposal, directions for voting, and a schedule of possible action. PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT. +---------+ | CHARTER | +---------+ Discussion and support of the AT&T 7300/3B1/UnixPC, and related Convergent Technologies and Motorola computer systems. These groups are to replace unix-pc hierarchy which will be suitably aliased for a three-month transition period. The period is longer than usual to account for the fact that the unix-pc hierarchy is somewhat independent in propagation from the mainstream of usenet. This proposal allows extra time for the distribution to settle down. After the three-month transition, the unix-pc hierarchy will be removed from the official list of alternate newsgroups. The newsgroup is being moved into the comp hierarchy to solve problems with spotty distribution in North America and almost nonexistent distribution on other continents where large numbers of these systems are used. Since AT&T discontinued these models and closed down the repair facility, the net is the only means of support information for many users. This makes the poor distribution even more worrisom for those who need this group. It has been suggested that the name change will also alleviate the present and growing confusion associated with the name 'unix-pc'. The proposal is NOT intended to encompass the discussed reorganization of comp.sys.att. It is not intended to promote or impair any reorganization discussions in the future. One dragon at a time... The comp.sources group is for posting of sources and official patches to these sources. It is to be moderated to ensure that only sources are posted, making it suitable for archiving at those sites which do this. dave@galaxia.Newport.RI.US and jmm@eci386 have volunteered to do the moderator thing for this group. Moderation will be "light", ie: code will not be strenuously tested, but will be checked for suitability. At least two moderators would share the job. More would be added if sufficient interest were put forward. +----------+ | PROPOSAL | +----------+ Create: ------ comp.sys.??? Discussion of UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe systems comp.sources.??? Source code *only* for UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe(Moderated) Obviously, the above votes are the only votes that will be counted to determine creation of the newsgroups. Choose the hierarchy within comp.sys for the newgroup: ------ comp.sys.??? comp.sys.att.??? comp.sys.m68k.??? Choose the final newsgroup designation: ------ 3b1 7300 miniframe s4 safari unixpc the end result would be something like: comp.sys.3b1 comp.sources.3b1 or comp.sys.safari comp.sources.safari or comp.sys.att.7300 comp.sources.7300 or comp.sys.m68k.unixpc comp.sources.unixpc etc... +---------------+ | VOTING METHOD | +---------------+ Send votes to the mailbox "vote" on the machine "bagend". Votes MUST be mailed. Votes posted will NOT count. Possible ways to address votes include: vote@bagend.uucp gatech!bagend!vote emory!stiatl!bagend!vote A valid vote MUST have a "yes" or "no" vote for the "create" section of the voting form. For the hierarchy and name section of the voting form, there are 3 choices: yes indicates a "yes" vote no indicates a "no" vote ok indicates a "ok, but not my first choice" vote This should be obvious. If you have a "strong" objection to a group or name, vote "no". If you have a "strong" preference to a group or name, vote "yes". If you want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "ok" to any name you do not object to and "yes" on the create section. If you do not want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "no" on the "create" section. Each vote must use this form: ======== START VOTING FORM ========= create-a-group-section ---------------------- yes/no I vote to create a comp.sys group to be named by this vote yes/no I vote to create a comp.sources group to be named by this vote choose-a-hierarchy-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.att yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.m68k choose-a-name-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 3b1 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 7300 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group miniframe yes/no/ok I vote to name the group safari yes/no/ok I vote to name the group s4 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group unixpc ======== END VOTING FORM ========= A valid vote MUST specify either "yes", "no" for the "create a comp.sys group" vote. Extra verbiage and/or quoting characters will be ignored, so don't panic if you send a vote with ">" characters still in place. If a badly-formed vote is complete and its meaning is obvious, I will fix it. Otherwise, I will reply to the voter with a form message that explains how to cast a valid vote -- essentially, another copy of this article. +----------+ | SCHEDULE | +----------+ 1. Voting: Since the holidays are upon us, the vote will run for 31 days from the time the Call For Votes appears in news.announce.newgroups, or until Monday, January 7, whichever is longer. I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the vote is over, I will post the final results. 2. Waiting Period: I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups. During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn the fairness of the vote taker. :-) 3. Consummation: After the waiting period, I will issue the appropriate control messages to create the new group(s). About one week later, I will re-issue the creation control messages. After three months, I will consult with Gene Spafford regarding the removal of the unix-pc hierarchy from the alternate newsgroups list. I have heard many pros and few cons for doing the vote this way. Time to test the water. :) Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion. Thanks to Chip Salzenberg and Jeffrey Templon, who's words I borrowed upon (lifted word-for-word) to put this together. -- Jan Isley | jan@bagend | 404-434-1335 {..known_universe..}!gatech!bagend!jan or {..}!emory!stiatl!bagend!jan
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce D. Becker) (12/10/90)
In article <1990Dec7.131017.5447@bagend.uucp> jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) writes: |This article is a CALL FOR VOTES to create a newsgroup within the |comp.sys hierarchy for the Convergent Technologies, Inc. systems |marketed as the AT&T UnixPC/7300/3B1, the Convergent Safari, the |Motorola Miniframe, and perhaps others... | |During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for |the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. |If successful, these groups would replace the unix-pc hierarchy. This is a misstatement, at least according to the understanding I have of the meaning of the term "consensus". A small but significant minority (myself among them, natch) objected strongly to this move. -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario a /i/ Internet: bdb@becker.UUCP, bruce@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu `\o\-e UUCP: ...!uunet!mnetor!becker!bdb _< /_ "Making the world safe for demography" - Western Culture (tm) Yoghurt
jan@ncar.ucar.edu (Jan Isley) (12/10/90)
[The following call for votes is probably not 100% kosher with the guidelines, because the vote is not yes or no.-eliot] This article is a CALL FOR VOTES to create a newsgroup within the comp.sys hierarchy for the Convergent Technologies, Inc. systems marketed as the AT&T UnixPC/7300/3B1, the Convergent Safari, the Motorola Miniframe, and perhaps others... During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. If successful, these groups would replace the unix-pc hierarchy. A tangential discussion to reorganize comp.sys.att errupted during the process but a consensus was not reached on that issue. However, the reorganization discussion did stir the water enough to cast some doubts about the final resting place for this newsgroup. Prompted by many suggestions and the current discussions taking place within news.groups regarding "multi-way votes", I will test the flexibility of the guidelines and the wisdom of the net by also making this article a CALL FOR VOTES to choose the name of the newgroups. This posting contains a charter for the new groups, a proposal, directions for voting, and a schedule of possible action. PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT. +---------+ | CHARTER | +---------+ Discussion and support of the AT&T 7300/3B1/UnixPC, and related Convergent Technologies and Motorola computer systems. These groups are to replace unix-pc hierarchy which will be suitably aliased for a three-month transition period. The period is longer than usual to account for the fact that the unix-pc hierarchy is somewhat independent in propagation from the mainstream of usenet. This proposal allows extra time for the distribution to settle down. After the three-month transition, the unix-pc hierarchy will be removed from the official list of alternate newsgroups. The newsgroup is being moved into the comp hierarchy to solve problems with spotty distribution in North America and almost nonexistent distribution on other continents where large numbers of these systems are used. Since AT&T discontinued these models and closed down the repair facility, the net is the only means of support information for many users. This makes the poor distribution even more worrisom for those who need this group. It has been suggested that the name change will also alleviate the present and growing confusion associated with the name 'unix-pc'. The proposal is NOT intended to encompass the discussed reorganization of comp.sys.att. It is not intended to promote or impair any reorganization discussions in the future. One dragon at a time... The comp.sources group is for posting of sources and official patches to these sources. It is to be moderated to ensure that only sources are posted, making it suitable for archiving at those sites which do this. dave@galaxia.Newport.RI.US and jmm@eci386 have volunteered to do the moderator thing for this group. Moderation will be "light", ie: code will not be strenuously tested, but will be checked for suitability. At least two moderators would share the job. More would be added if sufficient interest were put forward. +----------+ | PROPOSAL | +----------+ Create: ------ comp.sys.??? Discussion of UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe systems comp.sources.??? Source code *only* for UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe(Moderated) Obviously, the above votes are the only votes that will be counted to determine creation of the newsgroups. Choose the hierarchy within comp.sys for the newgroup: ------ comp.sys.??? comp.sys.att.??? comp.sys.m68k.??? Choose the final newsgroup designation: ------ 3b1 7300 miniframe s4 safari unixpc the end result would be something like: comp.sys.3b1 comp.sources.3b1 or comp.sys.safari comp.sources.safari or comp.sys.att.7300 comp.sources.7300 or comp.sys.m68k.unixpc comp.sources.unixpc etc... +---------------+ | VOTING METHOD | +---------------+ Send votes to the mailbox "vote" on the machine "bagend". Votes MUST be mailed. Votes posted will NOT count. Possible ways to address votes include: vote@bagend.uucp gatech!bagend!vote emory!stiatl!bagend!vote A valid vote MUST have a "yes" or "no" vote for the "create" section of the voting form. For the hierarchy and name section of the voting form, there are 3 choices: yes indicates a "yes" vote no indicates a "no" vote ok indicates a "ok, but not my first choice" vote This should be obvious. If you have a "strong" objection to a group or name, vote "no". If you have a "strong" preference to a group or name, vote "yes". If you want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "ok" to any name you do not object to and "yes" on the create section. If you do not want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "no" on the "create" section. Each vote must use this form: ======== START VOTING FORM ========= create-a-group-section ---------------------- yes/no I vote to create a comp.sys group to be named by this vote yes/no I vote to create a comp.sources group to be named by this vote choose-a-hierarchy-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.att yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.m68k choose-a-name-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 3b1 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 7300 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group miniframe yes/no/ok I vote to name the group safari yes/no/ok I vote to name the group s4 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group unixpc ======== END VOTING FORM ========= A valid vote MUST specify either "yes", "no" for the "create a comp.sys group" vote. Extra verbiage and/or quoting characters will be ignored, so don't panic if you send a vote with ">" characters still in place. If a badly-formed vote is complete and its meaning is obvious, I will fix it. Otherwise, I will reply to the voter with a form message that explains how to cast a valid vote -- essentially, another copy of this article. +----------+ | SCHEDULE | +----------+ 1. Voting: Since the holidays are upon us, the vote will run for 31 days from the time the Call For Votes appears in news.announce.newgroups, or until Monday, January 7, whichever is longer. I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the vote is over, I will post the final results. 2. Waiting Period: I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups. During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn the fairness of the vote taker. :-) 3. Consummation: After the waiting period, I will issue the appropriate control messages to create the new group(s). About one week later, I will re-issue the creation control messages. After three months, I will consult with Gene Spafford regarding the removal of the unix-pc hierarchy from the alternate newsgroups list. I have heard many pros and few cons for doing the vote this way. Time to test the water. :) Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion. Thanks to Chip Salzenberg and Jeffrey Templon, who's words I borrowed upon (lifted word-for-word) to put this together. -- The good and the bad thing about drugs | home jan@bagend 404-434-1335 drugs is that they wear off. -Elliston | known_universe!gatech!bagend!jan
jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) (12/12/90)
bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce D. Becker) writes: >In article <1990Dec7.131017.5447@bagend.uucp> jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) writes: >|During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for >|the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. >|If successful, these groups would replace the unix-pc hierarchy. > This is a misstatement, at least according to > the understanding I have of the meaning of the > term "consensus". rubbish. from _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (without permission), consensus - an opinion held by all or most, general agreement. ^^^^^^^ I say again. A consensus was reached to vote. > A small but significant minority (myself among > them, natch) objected strongly to this move. Like the bulk of opinions you have posted lately, Mr. Becker, the key word here is small. You have repeatedly declared that you could care less what the rest of the world has to say, and you seem quite determined to make sure that the reverse is true. Trust me, it is working. It sounds to me like you are challenging the validity of this vote. Does this mean that you are retracting your vote? I am not sure that the guidelines provide changing or withdrawing a vote once it has been cast. Sounds like a new topic for news.groups. -- Jan Isley jan@bagend {known universe}!gatech!bagend!jan (404)434-1335
emcguire@ccad.uiowa.edu (Ed McGuire) (12/12/90)
In article <1990Dec7.131017.5447@bagend.uucp> jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley) writes: During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. In article <58824@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce D. Becker) writes: This is a misstatement, at least according to the understanding I have of the meaning of the term "consensus". A small but significant minority (myself among them, natch) objected strongly to this move. What is required is a concensus among the *proponents* of a new group proposal. *Opponents* of a proposal such as yourself can certainly argue their case during the discussion period, and should obviously vote against the proposal. But the existence of a vocal minority opposing a new group does not justify calling off the vote. -- peace. -- Ed "Over here, Bones! This man's dying!" "Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a . . . What did you say?"
kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) (12/12/90)
In article <58824@becker.UUCP> bdb@becker.UUCP (Bruce D. Becker) writes: > A small but significant minority (myself among > them, natch) objected strongly to this move. Bruce's objection is probably the most compelling argument in favor of the change that I've seen to date. -- Karl Swartz |INet kls@ditka.chicago.com 1-408/223-1308 |UUCP {uunet,decwrl}!daver!ditka!kls |Snail 1738 Deer Creek Ct., San Jose CA 95148 "It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw."
vote@bagend.uucp (vote taker) (12/26/90)
* This is the second post of this CFV. The voting ends 9 Jan 1991. This article is a CALL FOR VOTES to create a newsgroup within the comp.sys hierarchy for the Convergent Technologies, Inc. systems marketed as the AT&T UnixPC/7300/3B1, the Convergent Safari, the Motorola Miniframe, and perhaps others... During the discussion period, a consensus was reached to vote for the creation of a group for these systems, and a sources group. If successful, these groups would replace the unix-pc hierarchy. A tangential discussion to reorganize comp.sys.att errupted during the process but a consensus was not reached on that issue. However, the reorganization discussion did stir the water enough to cast some doubts about the final resting place for this newsgroup. Prompted by many suggestions and the current discussions taking place within news.groups regarding "multi-way votes", I will test the flexibility of the guidelines and the wisdom of the net by also making this article a CALL FOR VOTES to choose the name of the newgroups. This posting contains a charter for the new groups, a proposal, directions for voting, and a schedule of possible action. PLEASE EXAMINE THE ENTIRE PROPOSAL BEFORE VOTING ON IT. +---------+ | CHARTER | +---------+ Discussion and support of the AT&T 7300/3B1/UnixPC, and related Convergent Technologies and Motorola computer systems. These groups are to replace unix-pc hierarchy which will be suitably aliased for a three-month transition period. The period is longer than usual to account for the fact that the unix-pc hierarchy is somewhat independent in propagation from the mainstream of usenet. This proposal allows extra time for the distribution to settle down. After the three-month transition, the unix-pc hierarchy will be removed from the official list of alternate newsgroups. The newsgroup is being moved into the comp hierarchy to solve problems with spotty distribution in North America and almost nonexistent distribution on other continents where large numbers of these systems are used. Since AT&T discontinued these models and closed down the repair facility, the net is the only means of support information for many users. This makes the poor distribution even more worrisom for those who need this group. It has been suggested that the name change will also alleviate the present and growing confusion associated with the name 'unix-pc'. The proposal is NOT intended to encompass the discussed reorganization of comp.sys.att. It is not intended to promote or impair any reorganization discussions in the future. One dragon at a time... The comp.sources group is for posting of sources and official patches to these sources. It is to be moderated to ensure that only sources are posted, making it suitable for archiving at those sites which do this. dave@galaxia.Newport.RI.US and jmm@eci386 have volunteered to do the moderator thing for this group. Moderation will be "light", ie: code will not be strenuously tested, but will be checked for suitability. At least two moderators would share the job. More would be added if sufficient interest were put forward. +----------+ | PROPOSAL | +----------+ Create: ------ comp.sys.??? Discussion of UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe systems comp.sources.??? Source code *only* for UnixPC/Sarfari S4/Miniframe(Moderated) Obviously, the above votes are the only votes that will be counted to determine creation of the newsgroups. Choose the hierarchy within comp.sys for the newgroup: ------ comp.sys.??? comp.sys.att.??? comp.sys.m68k.??? Choose the final newsgroup designation: ------ 3b1 7300 miniframe s4 safari unixpc the end result would be something like: comp.sys.3b1 comp.sources.3b1 or comp.sys.safari comp.sources.safari or comp.sys.att.7300 comp.sources.7300 or comp.sys.m68k.unixpc comp.sources.unixpc etc... +---------------+ | VOTING METHOD | +---------------+ Send votes to the mailbox "vote" on the machine "bagend". Votes MUST be mailed. Votes posted will NOT count. Possible ways to address votes include: vote@bagend.uucp gatech!bagend!vote emory!stiatl!bagend!vote A valid vote MUST have a "yes" or "no" vote for the "create" section of the voting form. For the hierarchy and name section of the voting form, there are 3 choices: yes indicates a "yes" vote no indicates a "no" vote ok indicates a "ok, but not my first choice" vote This should be obvious. If you have a "strong" objection to a group or name, vote "no". If you have a "strong" preference to a group or name, vote "yes". If you want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "ok" to any name you do not object to and "yes" on the create section. If you do not want a new group, regardless of the name, vote "no" on the "create" section. Each vote must use this form: ======== START VOTING FORM ========= create-a-group-section ---------------------- yes/no I vote to create a comp.sys group to be named by this vote yes/no I vote to create a comp.sources group to be named by this vote choose-a-hierarchy-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.att yes/no/ok I vote to put the group in comp.sys.m68k choose-a-name-section -------------------------- yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 3b1 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group 7300 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group miniframe yes/no/ok I vote to name the group safari yes/no/ok I vote to name the group s4 yes/no/ok I vote to name the group unixpc ======== END VOTING FORM ========= A valid vote MUST specify either "yes", "no" for the "create a comp.sys group" vote. Extra verbiage and/or quoting characters will be ignored, so don't panic if you send a vote with ">" characters still in place. If a badly-formed vote is complete and its meaning is obvious, I will fix it. Otherwise, I will reply to the voter with a form message that explains how to cast a valid vote -- essentially, another copy of this article. +----------+ | SCHEDULE | +----------+ 1. Voting: Since the holidays are upon us, the vote will run for 31 days from the time the Call For Votes appears in news.announce.newgroups, January 9, 1991. I will post a second Call For Votes, and possibly a list of unreachable return addresses, during the voting period. When the vote is over, I will post the final results. 2. Waiting Period: I will observe the normal waiting period of five days from the time that the final results appear in news.announce.newgroups. During this time, people may report lost votes and/or impugn the fairness of the vote taker. :-) 3. Consummation: After the waiting period, I will issue the appropriate control messages to create the new group(s). About one week later, I will re-issue the creation control messages. After three months, I will consult with Gene Spafford regarding the removal of the unix-pc hierarchy from the alternate newsgroups list. I have heard many pros and few cons for doing the vote this way. Time to test the water. :) Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion. Thanks to Chip Salzenberg and Jeffrey Templon, who's words I borrowed upon (lifted word-for-word) to put this together. -- The good and the bad thing about drugs | home jan@bagend 404-434-1335 is that they wear off. - Elliston | known_universe!gatech!bagend!jan