smbkit@ihlpm.ATT.COM (00704a-Bhobe) (05/18/88)
Is UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 officially available on 80386 based machine? If
so please let me know about it.
NOTE:
I. There is a company called "Bell Technologies" in Fremont,CA that sells
UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 on 80386 for $145. However I wasn't able to get
through to them to ask if they have device drivers for TTY ports.
II. Prentice Hall has announced a new UNIX SYSTEM V/386 series. In that case
why is AT & T still shipping XENIX on its 80386 based machines. Will
someone please enlighten me on this? ccastks@pyr.gatech.EDU (Ken Seefried iii) (05/19/88)
In article <1893@ihlpm.ATT.COM> smbkit@ihlpm.ATT.COM (00704a-Bhobe) writes: >Is UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 officially available on 80386 based machine? If >so please let me know about it. > >NOTE: > >I. There is a company called "Bell Technologies" in Fremont,CA that sells > UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 on 80386 for $145. However I wasn't able to get > through to them to ask if they have device drivers for TTY ports. > >II. Prentice Hall has announced a new UNIX SYSTEM V/386 series. In that case > why is AT & T still shipping XENIX on its 80386 based machines. Will > someone please enlighten me on this? Bell Technologies is a reseller for Interactive 386/ix which is the official System V rel.3 product for the 386 (Intel and AT&T contracted Interactive to do the port). Bell adds some device drivers to the base port, but do little else. Microport is another reseller of the Interactive port, but they apparently do much more extensive changes to the base port. Unfortunately, they apparently didn't do to good a job, from what I understand. There is a newsgroup called comp.unix.microport that details the deficiencies of the package. OH, and to top it off, their support leaves a lot to be desired... I don't know of ANY Unix that doesn't have TTY device drivers, so I will assume that you mean any of the various multi port serial boards that are availible. In that case, the answer is yes, and Bell makes a quite nice 6 port board. The Printice Hall books make up the bulk of the Bell System V documentation. For what its worth, I chose to go with System V rel.3 from Interactive, with the Bell serial card. **DISCLAIMER!! I am in no way associated with Bell, Interactive or Microport. ken seefried iii ken@gatech.edu
foobar@koko.UUCP (John Fruetel) (05/19/88)
In article <1893@ihlpm.ATT.COM> smbkit@ihlpm.ATT.COM (00704a-Bhobe) writes: >Is UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 officially available on 80386 based machine? If >so please let me know about it. > >NOTE: > >I. There is a company called "Bell Technologies" in Fremont,CA that sells > UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 on 80386 for $145. However I wasn't able to get > through to them to ask if they have device drivers for TTY ports. > >II. Prentice Hall has announced a new UNIX SYSTEM V/386 series. In that case > why is AT & T still shipping XENIX on its 80386 based machines. Will > someone please enlighten me on this? Well, I don't know about Prentice Hall but microport, bell tech and a few others (forgot who) sell basically the same version of sys V rel 3. Have been for quite a while, something like a year. I don't have it, but a friend does and, sure enough, it's SVR3. bcnu j fruetel * The opinions expressed here are John Fruetel * * my own, etc., etc., etc.. Valley Fresh Foods, Inc. * * Turlock, CA * * ..uunet!lll-winken!csustan!foobar *
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (05/19/88)
In article <1893@ihlpm.ATT.COM> smbkit@ihlpm.ATT.COM (00704a-Bhobe) writes: | I. There is a company called "Bell Technologies" in Fremont,CA that sells | UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 on 80386 for $145. However I wasn't able to get | through to them to ask if they have device drivers for TTY ports. BT wrote the serial drivers for the certified UNIX port to the 386. They sell smart and dumb 6 port serial cards with drivers for UNIX and Xenix. I have found their drivers to be reliable in the past, but haven't tried the serial/386 stuff. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
davidsen@steinmetz.ge.com (William E. Davidsen Jr) (05/19/88)
In article <5782@pyr.gatech.EDU> ccastks@pyr.UUCP (Ken Seefried iii) writes: | Bell Technologies is a reseller for Interactive 386/ix which is the official | System V rel.3 product for the 386 (Intel and AT&T contracted Interactive | to do the port). Actually I believe that BT wrote the device drivers for the certified UNIX port, and they are selling that port now (unmodified). INteractive and MicroPort have made changes (thay may be enhancements) to the base port. Opinion: I tried Xenix/386, IN/ix, and V/386. I bought Xenix (with my own money) because it was reliable. -- bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
ccastks@pyr.gatech.EDU (Ken Seefried iii) (05/20/88)
In article <10906@steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: >In article <5782@pyr.gatech.EDU> ccastks@pyr.UUCP (Ken Seefried iii) writes: > >| Bell Technologies is a reseller for Interactive 386/ix which is the official >| System V rel.3 product for the 386 (Intel and AT&T contracted Interactive >| to do the port). > > Actually I believe that BT wrote the device drivers for the certified >UNIX port, and they are selling that port now (unmodified). INteractive >and MicroPort have made changes (thay may be enhancements) to the base >port. Doubled checked this one, as i HATE to make wild statments only to find out that i was wrong. According to a buddy at AT&T, Interactive is indeed the ones who did the first (only?) original certified port of System V rel. 3 for the 80386. Bell (care of Susan Ong, southern regonal sales manager) concurrs that they are selling the interactive port unadulterated except for the fact that they wrote several new device drivers (very well, it seems). Microport took the Interactive port and mucked with the kernal and device drivers, adding what appear to be performance tuning and some Berkeleyism. >Opinion: I tried Xenix/386, IN/ix, and V/386. I bought Xenix (with my >own money) because it was reliable. Agreed, the Xenix package is much more stable. However, i too bought my own package, and at half the price, for me Interactive is the best deal. Either way, you get what you pay for...;'} ken seefried iii ken@gatech.edu >-- > bill davidsen (wedu@ge-crd.arpa) > {uunet | philabs | seismo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen >"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
joel@intelisc.UUCP (Joel Clark) (05/21/88)
In article <827@koko.UUCP> foobar@koko.UUCP (John Fruetel) writes: >In article <1893@ihlpm.ATT.COM> smbkit@ihlpm.ATT.COM (00704a-Bhobe) writes: >>Is UNIX SYSTEM V RELEASE 3 officially available on 80386 based machine? If >>so please let me know about it. >> >>II. Prentice Hall has announced a new UNIX SYSTEM V/386 series. In that case >> why is AT & T still shipping XENIX on its 80386 based machines. Will >> someone please enlighten me on this? > >Well, I don't know about Prentice Hall but microport, bell tech and a few >others (forgot who) sell basically the same version of sys V rel 3. Have We have been using it for about a year. We get ours from intel (the certified ATT/Intel/Interactive port) with cartridge tape and serial port drivers from Bell Tech. Bell Tech's drivers are fine though their installation methods are not specific to our port. (They actually install the configurable drivers, AND THEN THEIR OWN /unix and configuration file effectively wiping out your previous unix with other optional drivers). The 3.1 release has a cartridge tape driver from ATT and new boot and bad block handling. (3.0 bad block handling is limited). But to the point: Prentice Hall's UNIX SYSTEM V/386 is the manual set. Joel Clark Intel Scientific Computers (now running 400+ Megaflops) Beaverton, OR USA 97006 joel@intelisc.uucp (503) 629-7732 {tektronix}!ogcvax!intelisc!joel Intel accepts no liabilities becuase of my statements here.
dar@belltec.UUCP (Dimitri Rotow) (05/21/88)
In article <5785@pyr.gatech.EDU>, ccastks@pyr.gatech.EDU (Ken Seefried iii) writes: > In article <10906@steinmetz.ge.com> davidsen@crdos1.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: > >In article <5782@pyr.gatech.EDU> ccastks@pyr.UUCP (Ken Seefried iii) writes: > > > >| Bell Technologies is a reseller for Interactive 386/ix which is the official > >| System V rel.3 product for the 386 (Intel and AT&T contracted Interactive > >| to do the port). > > > > Actually I believe that BT wrote the device drivers for the certified > >UNIX port, and they are selling that port now (unmodified). INteractive > >and MicroPort have made changes (thay may be enhancements) to the base > >port. Well ! Much confusion in place of referencing printed material (RTFM). Following is an official response from Bell Technologies: Note that any commercial UNIX product really consists of three components: 1) the AT&T source content, 2) a port to the target processor architecture, and 3) a set of machine specific device drivers for a particular commercial machine utilizing the target processor. The old process by which third parties took AT&T source for VAX or 3B and ported to target commercial machines encouraged the growth of alternative visions of UNIX (BSD, Xenix, etc). About four years ago, AT&T hit on the idea of promoting its standard vision of UNIX, System V, by getting the major merchant microprocessor manufactures to co-sponsor "reference ports" of the system to their microprocessor lines. The belief was that if generic System V ports were done to Intel, Motorola, National, then 90 to 95% of the port job would be accomplished leaving only the creation of machine specific device drivers to be done. The availability of such standard ports, it was felt, would encourage a convergence unto System V. About three years ago, AT&T and Intel entered into a joint venture to provide a "reference port" of UNIX to Intel processors. The original target was the 80286 running System V Release 2. The project was called the "Micro Port" project (no relation to the company of a similar name). The deal was that AT&T hired Intel as their prime contractor for the port. Intel subcontracted the job to Digital Research, of CP/M fame. When Digital Research dropped dead on the project, Intel briefly turned to some of the former Digital Research people who had reconstituted themselves as "Microport Systems" to do contract work. Intel finally hired Interactive Systems to finish the job and to do a follow on project to port System V to the 80386. In early 1986 System V Release 2 had been ported to Intel 80286 multibus machines and was certified by AT&T. Chuck Hickey, President of Microport, approached us and other vendors with the proposition that the only thing between this reference port and a commercial product for the PC AT was a set of AT device drivers for disk, console, tty, and so on. We helped with the effort and agreed to distribute the release. For UNIX on the 80386, Intel insisted that Interactive's reference port be done not just for Intel 80386 Multibus machines, but also for 80386 clones. Thus UNIX System V Release 3.0 was created by Intel and Interactive and certified by AT&T on 80386 AT clones (provided by Bell Technologies) as well as on Multibus boxes. Bell Technologies was a subcontractor in this project. We provided the streamer tape and multiport serial card expansion code, as well as modifications to the hard disk driver enabling function with ESDI and RLL drives as well as ST506. The 80386 System V Release 3 product was conceived by AT&T and Intel as a complete shrink-wrapped commercial quality product. It is not some "subset" source only product requiring portation, or enhancement, to be a terrific commercial product. It is the only UNIX product available for the AT which today supports all commercial devices (such as tape, smart and dumb multiport cards, networks, high res graphics cards, etc), has user friendly menues, and is backed by source code availability and commercial quality books. The problem in shipping this commercial product is untangling the intellectual property interests in the commercial product actually certified. There are four components: 1) the AT&T property, 2) the Intel stuff done for 80386, 3) the Interactive Systems device drivers for AT and 4) the Bell Technologies device drivers. Only two companies, to my knowledge, own the rights to distribute the entire release exactly as certified: Bell Technolgies and Interactive Systems. Interactive commenced distributing the port as "386/ix". In the early days of distribution, 386/ix was identically the same as the certified port. In the last few months, Interactive has diverged 386/ix from the mainstream certified port. On Intel's behalf, we published the certified port exactly as it was certified. We charge so relatively little because we do not need to undergo the massive expense of debugging the product after modifying it. Debugging the certified port required over a year of time and $10 million. We feel that any gratuitous "enhancements" we might make do no justify the cost of undergoing that cycle again. In addition, since we need only reprint the excellant commercial quality books created by AT&T and Prentice Hall, we don't need to undergo the cost of re-doing all the documentation. Best of all, because we are shipping the complete release as certified, we and our customers benefit from upgrades to UNIX as they come out. We are already shipping release 3.1 with internationalization and enhanced streams. We will be shipping 3.2 with the ability to run Xenix binaries as well as implanted ability to host DOS within days of its certification. X is already available and Open Look will be available within days of certification. If we were to proprietarize the release, we would have to charge extra for what is really no value added plus we would inject a considerable delay in bringing to developers and our customers the benefits of pending upgrades to UNIX. For the record, we ship the official Intel/AT&T 80386 commercial UNIX product. We don't compete with Interactive, SCO, or Microport: they are all in the position now of competing directly with Intel and AT&T. I think it is good that Intel and AT&T have combined to bring to the world a binary UNIX product which is a true commercial product that has been thoroughly tested in the lab and not in the field. That one can get such a product for far less than $200 is a testimonial to the economy of scale made possible by AT&T and Intel's $40 million per year investment in UNIX, and not at all a reflection of limited content. Please do not hesitate to contact either our technical staff or (even) sales people for more information, or mail me direct. Dimitri Rotow, President