[comp.sys.intel] unsafe computing

mac3n@babbage.acc.virginia.edu (Alex Colvin) (01/10/89)

> problem the compiler writer had to deal with.  If a translator for a 
> language exists on a machine, it should translate programs into a form
> that executes correctly on the target machine, or at least inform the
> operator that a problem exists.  That's the whole point of a high level
> language.

presumaby you expect C to detect arithmetic overflow as well.
and subscript errors.
and invalid pointers
and ...

C is not a high level language.
C is not a language for the average programmer.
its wholesale adoption by the PC community is a disaster
for both the language and that community.
perhaps you should consider something in the Pascal line.

ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (01/11/89)

> presumaby you expect C to detect arithmetic overflow as well.  > and
subscript errors.  > and invalid pointers > and ...  Nope, I expect it to do
what the spec says.  The spec says that subscripting out of bounds and
overflow is undefined.  It also says that pointer subtraction works.  The
Intel C compiler seems not to conform to the spec, so it isn't C.

> C is not a high level language.
Untrue.
> C is not a language for the average programmer.
We're not talking average programmers.  Were talking about people who know how C is
supposed to work and have been using it on other machines.

m5@lynx.uucp (Mike McNally) (01/11/89)

In article <492@babbage.acc.virginia.edu> mac3n@babbage.acc.virginia.edu (Alex Colvin) writes:
>presumaby you expect C to detect arithmetic overflow as well.
>and subscript errors.
>and invalid pointers
>and ...

You presume wrong.

>C is not a high level language.

Bullshit.

>C is not a language for the average programmer.
>its wholesale adoption by the PC community is a disaster
>for both the language and that community.
>perhaps you should consider something in the Pascal line.

I don't program PC's unless it's under my own OS; even then I consider
them to be hideous piles of festering reeking mucous.  The issue has
nothing to do with that, however.  Whatever kind of language you think
C is, it has a semantic definition.  If a compiler does not implement
the required semantics, it's busted.  If you don't mind using it, go
for it; I don't give a cold bucket of piss.

-- 
Mike McNally                                    Lynx Real-Time Systems
uucp: {voder,athsys}!lynx!m5                    phone: 408 370 2233

            Where equal mind and contest equal, go.

chip@ateng.ateng.com (Chip Salzenberg) (01/12/89)

According to mac3n@babbage.acc.virginia.edu (Alex Colvin):
>C is not a high level language.

To paraphrase Peter Norton, who made a similar point:

    `C is an industrial-strength language.  Now, most everyone thinks
     that they want an industrial-strength language.  But what most
     people forget is that "industrial-strength" also means "not safe
     for pets and small children".'

Although I like C, I tend to agree with Norton on this point.

>C is not a language for the average programmer.

In fact, C is not a language for *sub*-standard programmers.
That doesn't stop them from using it, unfortunately.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg             <chip@ateng.com> or <uunet!ateng!chip>
A T Engineering             Me?  Speak for my company?  Surely you jest!
	  "It's no good.  They're tapping the lines."

ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (01/13/89)

>>C is not a language for the average programmer.
>
> In fact, C is not a language for *sub*-standard programmers.
> That doesn't stop them from using it, unfortunately.

Nor, evidentally from the MicroSoft example, does it stop them from attempting
to write C compilers.

-Ron