dlu@wobble.UUCP (Doug Urner) (11/08/88)
I'm trying to select a multi-port serial card for my '386 machine.
One of the board's major responsibilities will be to handle uucp
trafic through a high speed modem I am assuming that it will have
to be a "smart" board.
The OS is Interactive's 386/ix.
I have more or less narrowed my search to these three boards, but I
am open to other ideas.
Anvil "Stallion" 8 port
They claim to have implemented the tty driver on the board
so that all serial i/o can be off loaded to the board. This
might be great but it also makes me a little nervous about
the amount of finger pointing that could get involved with
keeping the drivers in sync. I also assume that I will have
to keep two drivers around if I want any other serial boards
on the system.
Arnet "Smartport" 8 port
This one did real well in "Infoworld's" benchmarks. They also
offer a "lifetime" (of the machine (or company, whichever comes
first :-)) warranty. Interactive supports this board.
Dastra "MCIO/16" 8 port
This one also claims to have UNIX/XENIX specific support,
but I haven't been able to get much information about what
exactly it is that they do to support UNIX...
All of the benchmark reports that I have found in trade rags only report
on one of the above, so they are hard to compare.
I would appreciate any information that you care to share about these
boards.
Thanks in advance,
Doug Urner uunet!wobble!dlu 206/676-5759steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) (11/08/88)
From article <139@wobble.UUCP>, by dlu@wobble.UUCP (Doug Urner): > I'm trying to select a multi-port serial card for my '386 machine. > One of the board's major responsibilities will be to handle uucp > trafic through a high speed modem I am assuming that it will have > to be a "smart" board. > The OS is Interactive's 386/ix. I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip retrofitted. If you can replace the scrummy chip with a National NS16550A I have a driver that takes advantage of its on-chip FIFOs and performs reasonably. The driver also includes provisions for "dumb" multiport card addressing, and deals with a mix of smart and dumb chips. I am planning to release a version of the driver (as shareware, it was an unholy bitch to write) next month but I will send an advance copy to anyone who needs it to avoid the expence of a "smart" board. If there is a groundswell of interest in this I would consider coordinating a group purchase of the chips - they are not stock items in your typical parts shop. -- Steve Nuchia | [...] but the machine would probably be allowed no mercy. uunet!nuchat!steve | In other words then, if a machine is expected to be (713) 334 6720 | infallible, it cannot be intelligent. - Alan Turing, 1947
steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) (11/09/88)
From article <2652@nuchat.UUCP>, by steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia): > I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's > version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip > retrofitted. By The Way, an earlier incarnation of that driver demonstrated 9600 on a 16550 plus two 2400 on 8250s, simultaneous uucicos, on a 10MHz 286 running microbug. Should still be possible to graft it into a microport linkkit. -- Steve Nuchia | [...] but the machine would probably be allowed no mercy. uunet!nuchat!steve | In other words then, if a machine is expected to be (713) 334 6720 | infallible, it cannot be intelligent. - Alan Turing, 1947
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (11/09/88)
In article <2652@nuchat.UUCP> steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: >From article <139@wobble.UUCP>, by dlu@wobble.UUCP (Doug Urner): [ Doug's query omitted along with some of Steve's reply, I'm following up his comments about the NS16550A ] >If there is a groundswell of interest in this I would consider >coordinating a group purchase of the chips - they are not >stock items in your typical parts shop. Indeed they are not. Thanks to a kind soul I was able to borrow some to send to Steve a while back (small compensation for a nice driver). After I had spent months and >$20 apiece for them I found a source who has them and will sell them for <$10 apiece. I think out of courtesy to the fellow we should still do a group purchase and let someone (I'll help) meter them out to the folks who want them. -- Bill Kennedy usenet {killer,att,rutgers,sun!daver,uunet!bigtex}!ssbn!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM
bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) (11/09/88)
In article <2653@nuchat.UUCP> steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: |From article <2652@nuchat.UUCP>, by steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia): |> I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's |> version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip |> retrofitted. | |By The Way, an earlier incarnation of that driver demonstrated 9600 on |a 16550 plus two 2400 on 8250s, simultaneous uucicos, on a 10MHz 286 |running microbug. Should still be possible to graft it into a microport |linkkit. Sorry, I don't want to appear to nit pick but there is a significant difference between the NS16550 and the NS16550A. I know that Steve meant the 550A but there are still some old 550's around and they are quite different. Most notably the 550 doesn't work whereas the 550A does. Like I said, I'm not beating Steve over the head but it is important that everyone clearly understand the distinction, even though we know what he meant. -- Bill Kennedy usenet {killer,att,rutgers,sun!daver,uunet!bigtex}!ssbn!bill internet bill@ssbn.WLK.COM
asp@puck.UUCP (Andy Puchrik) (11/10/88)
In article <2652@nuchat.UUCP>, steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: > I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's > version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip > retrofitted. What kinds of boards would this work for? I have a Digicomm 4-port board. Is this one dumb enough to be a candidate for a chip(s) upgrade? -- Internet: asp@puck.UUCP Andy Puchrik uucp: decvax!necntc!necis!puck!asp Moonlight Systems ARPA: puchrik@tops20.dec.com Concord, MA 01742
zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (11/10/88)
If you have a source of 16550As for < $10, I'd like to get a couple. Do you have a name and phone number for your source? -- Jon Zeeff Ann Arbor, MI umix!b-tech!zeeff zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us
rick@pcrat.UUCP (Rick Richardson) (11/11/88)
In article <343@puck.UUCP> asp@puck.UUCP (Andy Puchrik) writes: >In article <2652@nuchat.UUCP>, steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: >> I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's >> version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip >> retrofitted. >What kinds of boards would this work for? I have a Digicomm 4-port board. >Is this one dumb enough to be a candidate for a chip(s) upgrade? This here Digicom-4 has had 16550A's in it since last February. Runs the Trailblazer off our AT. I haven't tried the Digicom in the 386, since I could see no reason to make the change. I've got a total of 8 serial ports between the two machines (6 on the AT, 2 on the 386), and they all run with 16550A's. -- Rick Richardson | JetRoff "di"-troff to LaserJet Postprocessor|uunet!pcrat!dry2 PC Research,Inc.| Mail: uunet!pcrat!jetroff; For anon uucp do:|for Dhrystone 2 uunet!pcrat!rick| uucp jetroff!~jetuucp/file_list ~nuucp/. |submission forms. jetroff Wk2200-0300,Sa,Su ACU {2400,PEP19200} 12013898963 "" \r ogin: jetuucp
steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) (11/12/88)
From article <343@puck.UUCP>, by asp@puck.UUCP (Andy Puchrik): [UART replacement] > What kinds of boards would this work for? I have a Digicomm 4-port board. > Is this one dumb enough to be a candidate for a chip(s) upgrade? Any board that presents regular 8250 register files in I/O space; DOS COM1-COM4 types, for instance. If it has a processor on it it is too smart. Mother-board serial chips are good candidates, too. Non-intel systems using the 8250 or equivalent could benefit too. but you'll have some porting to do. To safely replace the UART it needs to be socketed; I've got internal modems that have surface mounted 8250s and I understand that the telebit internal has an 8250 soldered down. Oh Well. -- Steve Nuchia | [...] but the machine would probably be allowed no mercy. uunet!nuchat!steve | In other words then, if a machine is expected to be (713) 334 6720 | infallible, it cannot be intelligent. - Alan Turing, 1947
NU013809@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Greg Wettstein) (11/12/88)
I would be interested in purchasing an NS16550A if a group purchase is
to be made.
As always,
G.W. Wettsteinjfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US (John F. Haugh II) (11/14/88)
In article <2657@nuchat.UUCP> steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: >To safely replace the UART it needs to be socketed; I've got internal >modems that have surface mounted 8250s and I understand that the telebit >internal has an 8250 soldered down. Oh Well. Adding sockets to unsocketed boards is a snap if you know the right procedure. All of this should be performed with your body suitably grounded, and a fine pointed soldering iron. Start by cutting the leads off of the old chip with a pair of narrow tipped cutters. Take a low wattage iron, 15 or 20 watts is plenty, and tin the tip well. Grasp each piece of left over lead with a pair of needle nose pliers, hemostats work perfectly for this. Then, heat the solder side of the board with the iron. The lead should come free in a few seconds. The trick seems to be keeping the tip of the iron clean and well tinned. Remove all leads before beginning the next step. Prepare the board for the socket [ or a new chip ] by removing the solder from the holes. If you are fortunate enough to have a solder sucker, you will know how to do this already, otherwise, you can remove the solder by placing a piece of copper solder wick between the board and the iron, and then heating the wick. You need to use fresh spots on the wick after each hole. Avoid leaving the iron in one spot for too long to prevent ruining the board. With all of the holes cleared out, insert the socket or new chip [ I suggest replacing any soldered in chips with socketed chips ] into the holes. A trick I use is the bend over pin 1 and the pin diagonal to prevent the item from falling out. Using very fine gauge solder, solder each pin to the board. You want to use fine solder [ 24 gauge or smaller ] so you won't have to heat the solder for too long. Always proceed with this step SLOWLY, allowing several seconds between each joint to reduce the likelyhood of heat damage to the chip. Of course, if you are installing a socket this advice doesn't apply. Finally, if you just added a socket, insert the chip into the socket as you would have if the original chip weren't soldered in place originally. No big deal. Surface mounted goodies are a different story ;-( -- John F. Haugh II +----Make believe quote of the week---- VoiceNet: (214) 250-3311 Data: -6272 | Nancy Reagan on Artifical Trish: InterNet: jfh@rpp386.Dallas.TX.US | "Just say `No, Honey'" UucpNet : <backbone>!killer!rpp386!jfh +--------------------------------------
jack@turnkey.TCC.COM (Jack F. Vogel) (11/14/88)
In article <139@wobble.UUCP> dlu@wobble.UUCP (Doug Urner) writes: >I'm trying to select a multi-port serial card for my '386 machine. >One of the board's major responsibilities will be to handle uucp >trafic through a high speed modem I am assuming that it will have >to be a "smart" board. > >I have more or less narrowed my search to these three boards, but I >am open to other ideas. > > Anvil "Stallion" 8 port > > They claim to have implemented the tty driver on the board > so that all serial i/o can be off loaded to the board. This > might be great but it also makes me a little nervous about > the amount of finger pointing that could get involved with > keeping the drivers in sync. I also assume that I will have > to keep two drivers around if I want any other serial boards > on the system. I have put in a number of different "smart" and "dumb" multiport cards for different clients and I will have to say that I never have seen a card as nice as the Anvil Stallion. It uses its own drivers but they install like a breeze. It really does offload most serial I/O from the CPU. Also going from 8 ports to 16 ports is just a daughter board and additional cable. If I remember correctly it has a 10Mhz 80186 and 64K of static ram onboard. So far my client using it only has 8 ports but the distributor up north claims to be easily supporting 32 ports on a 20Mhz 386. They also provide a nice monitor program that shows you the amount of data transmitted or received through each of the ports and percentage of CPU utilization in real time. This card is a real winner!! > Arnet "Smartport" 8 port > > This one did real well in "Infoworld's" benchmarks. They also > offer a "lifetime" (of the machine (or company, whichever comes > first :-)) warranty. Interactive supports this board. Arnet is a good solid board but watch out because some of their boards, and I believe this includes the one above do not provide modem support signals, they are only capable of running terminals, that also means you will not have full handshaking with the terminal either which may mean it will be problematic to run above 9600 baud. On the Anvil we run terminals with full handshaking at 38.4K baud. -- Jack F. Vogel Turnkey Computer Consultants, Costa Mesa, CA UUCP: ...{nosc|uunet}!turnkey!jack Internet: jack@turnkey.TCC.COM
asp@puck.UUCP (Andy Puchrik) (11/15/88)
In article <1574NU013809@NDSUVM1>, NU013809@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Greg Wettstein) writes: > I would be interested in purchasing an NS16550A if a group purchase is > to be made. I would like six (6) of the NS16550A chips. Is someone collecting for a group order? Will the driver be posted? -- Internet: asp@puck.UUCP Andy Puchrik uucp: decvax!necntc!necis!puck!asp Moonlight Systems ARPA: puchrik@tops20.dec.com Concord, MA 01742
sl@van-bc.UUCP (pri=-10 Stuart Lynne) (11/16/88)
In article <2652@nuchat.UUCP> steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) writes: >From article <139@wobble.UUCP>, by dlu@wobble.UUCP (Doug Urner): >> I'm trying to select a multi-port serial card for my '386 machine. >> One of the board's major responsibilities will be to handle uucp >> trafic through a high speed modem I am assuming that it will have >> to be a "smart" board. > >> The OS is Interactive's 386/ix. > >I am successfully running at 9600bps on a Bell Tech 386 with Bell Tech's >version of Interactive V.3, using a "dumb" port with a "smart" chip >retrofitted. > >If you can replace the scrummy chip with a National NS16550A >I have a driver that takes advantage of its on-chip FIFOs and >performs reasonably. The driver also includes provisions >for "dumb" multiport card addressing, and deals with a mix >of smart and dumb chips. > >I am planning to release a version of the driver (as shareware, >it was an unholy bitch to write) next month but I will send an >advance copy to anyone who needs it to avoid the expence of a >"smart" board. That makes two of us :-) Sounds like we now have all of the 286/386 Unix's covered. You for microport 286. I've got Xenix 286/386 and SysV 386. (well uPort 286 is being worked on but only *very* reluctantly!) >If there is a groundswell of interest in this I would consider >coordinating a group purchase of the chips - they are not >stock items in your typical parts shop. Actually Hamilton Avnet usually has a good supply of these and will drop ship anywhere via UPS COD. Last time I checked they where about $20 US. To reinforce what Steve is saying, for one or two lines into your 286 or 386 box, you *DO NOT* need a smart card. The NS16550's with a decent driver (Steve's or mine) will give you performance in the same range as a smart card. It is not unreasonable to think of two trailblazers at 9600 for 286 systems or 19.2 for 386 systems. After two lines a smart card starts to become a much more viable proposition unless you have lot's of spare interrupts on your system. This is because of the design limitations of the pc and how it handles interrupts. Basically with two (or possibly three) serial chips you can put each one on a separate interrupt. With more than that you have to start sharing. When you share an interrupt between multiple USARTs you must check *all* of them for data on *every* interrupt. This increases your overhead and interrupt latency dramatically. A 386 wouldn't have any problems with 3 lines if they had separate interrupts though. Finally, although my driver has support for the various AT based Unix systems it is designed to be a generic serial driver for dumb chips for any System V based Unix system. Allows for easy implementation of serial drivers by defining a set of macros and the interrupt and config routines. It currently runs (for example) on 286/386 and 680X0 based systems. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!sl Vancouver,BC,604-937-7532
steve@nuchat.UUCP (Steve Nuchia) (11/16/88)
From article <344@puck.UUCP>, by asp@puck.UUCP (Andy Puchrik): > I would like six (6) of the NS16550A chips. Is someone collecting for a > group order? Will the driver be posted? We are collecting names sent in by mail and providing copies of the driver by mail. The driver is not yet 100%, I'm planning to post it sometime next month after I hear back from the beta folks. -- Steve Nuchia | [...] but the machine would probably be allowed no mercy. uunet!nuchat!steve | In other words then, if a machine is expected to be (713) 334 6720 | infallible, it cannot be intelligent. - Alan Turing, 1947