bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce KING) (01/05/90)
I've seen 5 or 10 requests in the last week that are about information that I'm interested in. In each case the person posing the question has asked for email. I'd like to see those questions get asked on the network. Look -- by sending email you're not benefitting anyone but the recipient of the request, and if they DO post a summary to the network it's often weeks after the intial query -- and may not get through anyways. If you're considering posing a question, consider NOT asking it to be responded to in email. There are even some benefits to you: * responses get commented on by other net people * incorrect responses get corrected * responses that are visible spawn other responses--resulting in more info. * you (personally) have less work to do; you don't have to post a summary That seem fair enough? If you're asking, there are probably a few hundred or a few thousand people all over the world who want that same question answered. This message is not aimed at anyone. It's a general philosophy that I'd like to see more people ahere to. Bruce King / uunet!microsoft!bruceki / (206) 882-8080 Claimer: This isn't my idea, but I support it. It's not Microsoft's idea.
mikel@taumet.UUCP (Michael S. Lueke) (01/06/90)
In article <10146@microsoft.UUCP> bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce King) writes: > > I've seen 5 or 10 requests in the last week that are about information that >I'm interested in. In each case the person posing the question has asked for >email. I'd like to see those questions get asked on the network. > I completely agree with you. I've noticed that this seems to be happenning more frequently the past couple of months and at times I find it totally frustrating. Usually, the summary is never posted and I miss out on some useful information. If information is exchanged mostly by email then there is little reason to have this newsgroup. Michael S. Lueke uunet!taumet!mikel Taumetric Corp., San Diego
terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) (01/06/90)
In article <181@taumet.UUCP> mikel@.UUCP (Michael S. Lueke) writes: >In article <10146@microsoft.UUCP> bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce King) writes: >> >> I've seen 5 or 10 requests in the last week that are about information that >>I'm interested in. In each case the person posing the question has asked for >>email. I'd like to see those questions get asked on the network. >> > >I completely agree with you. I've noticed that this seems to be happenning >more frequently the past couple of months and at times I find it totally >frustrating. Usually, the summary is never posted and I miss out on some >useful information. Yes, but there is a flip side. That is having 100 people post the same answer is no solution either. USENET is busy enough without 100 people posting the same thing. The only solution that I see is to send the poster mail asking for a summary. Many times I guage the interest in a particular topic by the number of responses I receive. Therefore, if I only get a single response I usually think that no one else is interested in the topic and do not post a summary. If a summary is requested, I'll create one and send it out. -- Terry Hull Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University Work: terry@eecea.eece.ksu.edu, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!terry Play: terry@tah386.manhattan.ks.us, rutgers!ksuvax1!eecea!tah386!terry
uhclem@trsvax.UUCP (01/09/90)
<> R6>The only solution that I see is to send the poster mail asking for a R6>summary. Many times I guage the interest in a particular topic by the R6>number of responses I receive. Therefore, if I only get a single R6>response I usually think that no one else is interested in the topic R6>and do not post a summary. If a summary is requested, I'll create one R6>and send it out. You are quite correct. If someone feels that they will be unable to see the eventual summary (and I have a email request on the net right now and the responses are just starting to arrive after a week, which just goes to show that these things take time), send email requesting a personal copy of the summary. The goal is to cut net traffic down to its useful components, which can save mortals big bucks in phone charges. <My opinion, and not that of the telephone company who would rather everyone include the base message in each response and respond to everything...> "Thank you, Uh Clem." Frank Durda IV @ <trsvax!uhclem> ...decvax!microsoft!trsvax!uhclem ...hal6000!trsvax!uhclem
tanner@cdis-1.UUCP (Dr. T. Andrews) (01/11/90)
Kindly ignore the earlier posting re: this subject, asking that
responses be posted. Instead, when asking a question, kindly ask
for responses via e-mail. You might use something of the form:
kindly E-MAIL responses; I will post a summary
so that others who may be interested will be spared the effort of
"mee-too" postings.
--
{attctc gatech!uflorida}!ki4pv!cdis-1!tanner {bpa uunet}!cdin-1!cdis-1!tannerbruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce KING) (01/12/90)
I know about asking the collector for a personal copy of the summary; some of these collectors DO NOT DO summaries, even when they post a statement that they will: Example (from email) "...I guage the level of interest from the number of requests I get, and if I only get one or two, I don't make a summary... ...forwarding the raw data isn't an option for me because I pay for my net time by the hour..." It's this kind of thing IN THIS GROUP IN PARTICULAR that I'm getting REALLY tired of. I've sent "Send me summary" requests to FIVE different individuals; some of them as long as 45 days ago, and NONE have replied with a summary. One guy did summarize what he thought, but included none of the data that comprised those thoughts. I don't know if the stuff he recieved had any part of it, how much stuff he received, or even IF he received any information. Ya know, if people did post summaries life'd be fine. But my experience has shown that to be very rare. If you want examples, I'll dig up the email names from my mail folder; folks who asked for information, I sent a request (or many requests to, in the case of the 45 day lag) and who I've never gotten anything back from. bruceki@microsoft or voice at (206) 882-8080
bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce KING) (01/13/90)
"...kindly ignore previous posting asking that replies be posted... "...I will post a summary." This is a joke, right? bruceki@microsoft
bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) (01/13/90)
In article <10236@microsoft.UUCP> bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce KING) writes: > I know about asking the collector for a personal copy of the summary; >some of these collectors DO NOT DO summaries, even when they post a >statement that they will: Example (from email) > "...I guage the level of interest from the number of requests I get, >and if I only get one or two, I don't make a summary... ...forwarding >the raw data isn't an option for me because I pay for my net time by >the hour..." > It's this kind of thing IN THIS GROUP IN PARTICULAR that I'm getting >REALLY tired of. I've sent "Send me summary" requests to FIVE different >individuals; some of them as long as 45 days ago, and NONE have replied >with a summary. .... Bruce - I too have noticed that, while noticing there is an increase in the rise in these type requests. I have am also of the opinion, after reading many of the "email and I will sumarize" requests, that often the excuse is I am not a regular reader of this section, etc. I feel that the "sumarize" excuse is a way of trying to save face instead of saying "I'm to lazy to RTFM and why should I bother if I can get the answer here". Many of these request are/were uneccesary IF the reader had been a regular user, or are so simple they could be answered if the person weren't lazy. On a good question I won't email if I feel if it is of general interest. If it is a specific question, even posted generaly, I will email. And most of the "please email - I'll sumarzie" requests I just ignore. There appear to be an increasing number of readers who think usenet is their manual. bill -- Bill Vermillion - UUCP: {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd}!peora!tarpit!bilver!bill : bill@bilver.UUCP
usenet@carssdf.UUCP (UseNet Id.) (01/15/90)
In article <438@bilver.UUCP>, bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) writes: > In article <10236@microsoft.UUCP> bruceki@microsoft.UUCP (Bruce KING) writes: > Bruce - I too have noticed that, while noticing there is an increase in the > rise in these type requests. I have am also of the opinion, after reading > many of the "email and I will sumarize" requests, that often the excuse is I > am not a regular reader of this section, etc. ..... Beyond not being a regular reader, they probably still have no intention of reading the net, even for their reply. Now I have gone and done it. I hate "flame" and I went and contributed more. I just get agravated some times. John Watson ...!rutgers!carssdf!usenet
wlk@raider.MFEE.TN.US (Wolf Kozel) (01/16/90)
> > > Bruce - I too have noticed that, while noticing there is an increase in the > rise in these type requests. I have am also of the opinion, after reading > many of the "email and I will sumarize" requests, that often the excuse is I > am not a regular reader of this section, etc. I feel that the "sumarize" > excuse is a way of trying to save face instead of saying "I'm to lazy to RTFM > and why should I bother if I can get the answer here". Many of these request > are/were uneccesary IF the reader had been a regular user, or are so simple > they could be answered if the person weren't lazy. Arn't people TERRIBLE?? If the requests are so simple, what do you care if the user requests people e-mail instead of posting dozens of "simple RTFM" replies? Seems to me in that case, e-mail is preferable. > On a good question I won't email if I feel if it is of general interest. If > it is a specific question, even posted generaly, I will email. And most of > the "please email - I'll sumarzie" requests I just ignore. There appear to be > an increasing number of readers who think usenet is their manual. > > Bill Vermillion - UUCP: {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd}!peora!tarpit!bilver!bill > : bill@bilver.UUCP According to The Waite Groups UNIX COMMUNICATIONS, replies should be e-mailed unless: "1)the response is likely to be of general interest to the readers of the newsgroup in question or 2) not likely to be duplicated by other responses.". For example, the posting which asked "Has anybody gotten a Computone Board to work bi-directionally with Modems??" would have been a good e-mailer instead of reading 50% of the postings say "No. They don't work" and 50% say "No problem here...". What conclusion can I draw from postings like that?? They work? They don't work? They work sometimes?? In my opinion, I'd rather see someone draw a conclusion from e-mailings and followup. If they don't followup -- no big loss here. Wolf Kozel
scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) (01/18/90)
In article <438@bilver.UUCP> bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) writes: > I have am also of the opinion, after reading >many of the "email and I will sumarize" requests, that often the excuse is I >am not a regular reader of this section, etc. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yep. I could never figure this one out. Somebody posts a request for information in a particular newsgroup that he/she doesn't normally read. Then they go on to suggest that they will not continue to read that newsgroup for the next week or so to see the answers to their question. Go figure. -- Scott Amspoker Basis International, Albuquerque, NM (505) 345-5232 unmvax.cs.unm.edu!bbx!bbxsda!scott
davidsen@crdos1.crd.ge.COM (Wm E Davidsen Jr) (01/18/90)
In article <552@bbxsda.UUCP> scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes: | Yep. I could never figure this one out. Somebody posts a request for | information in a particular newsgroup that he/she doesn't normally read. | Then they go on to suggest that they will not continue to read that newsgroup | for the next week or so to see the answers to their question. Go figure. I have occasionally asked that people mail and I could summarize. I think I have always done so if I got any answers. This saves a bunch of postings of "let me know too" and allows deletion of sigs and quoting of the original article. If done reasonably well it saves bandwidth and results in a posting which is more useful to the readers. My recent summary of replies to the questions on the Compuadd ESDI controller was an example of this, I listed the names of the "tell me, too" replaies, and nothing else. Some of us have other logistical problems. Because of disk space limitations I have had to set expire times to be short and also dynamic for some groups. This means that is a bunch of large postings come in over the weekend I may lose postings in some groups (expire has gone as low as 32 hours in some cases). Mail will sit there and wait until Monday. I think that *in some cases* there are good reasons for requesting mail rather than posting, particularly if the question is posted to a number of groups which might not like the trqffic of the answers. People complain less about a single summary, even if the topic is only marginally related to the main group content. I agree that lazyness *by itself* is a poor reason to ask for mail. -- bill davidsen (davidsen@crdos1.crd.GE.COM -or- uunet!crdgw1!crdos1!davidsen) "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
pmartin@ucqais.uc.edu (Paul Martin) (01/18/90)
In article <552@bbxsda.UUCP>, scott@bbxsda.UUCP (Scott Amspoker) writes: > In article <438@bilver.UUCP> bill@bilver.UUCP (Bill Vermillion) writes: > > I have am also of the opinion, after reading > >many of the "email and I will sumarize" requests, that often the excuse is I > >am not a regular reader of this section, etc. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Yep. I could never figure this one out. Somebody posts a request for > information in a particular newsgroup that he/she doesn't normally read. > Then they go on to suggest that they will not continue to read that newsgroup > for the next week or so to see the answers to their question. Go figure. > Some people ask for emailed responses because: 1) They cannot read this newsgroup at their site 2) They realize that a great meny readers of the net cannot post but can send email 3) They don't want the net cluttered up with a hundred answers to what they perceive will be an easy answer 4) They feel the question will be to specific to be of any use to others 5) They like the idea of checking for responses just by logging on (ie. you have mail) without having to scan through the group I personally ask for email replies because of sometimes I just have time to look at my mail but dont have time right now to scan through the groups to see if I got a response. Even though later on I will read through the groups to see if others have posted a followup. Also I do it for some of the reasons listed above. And by the way, I do read the groups I post to regularly. -- +-----------------------------+-----------------------------+ | Paul Martin | Yes I am serious, and | | pmartin@ucqais.uc.edu | don't call me Shirley. | +-----------------------------+-----------------------------+