rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random) (01/19/87)
Some of the discussions here lately made me think of an interesting question. Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it? Before any of you might laugh, the other day, I was taking some notes and I had to stop and think how to make a capital cursive "G". And of course my handwriting has always been awful even before computers. Has anyone else noticed this problem? -- Random (Randy Buckland) Research Triangle Institute ...!mcnc!rti-sel!rcb
cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) (01/20/87)
In article <1145@rti-sel.UUCP> rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random) writes:
-> Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers
-> who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget
-> who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it?
->
->Before any of you might laugh, the other day, I was taking some notes and
->I had to stop and think how to make a capital cursive "G". And of course
->my handwriting has always been awful even before computers. Has anyone
->else noticed this problem?
I think you have the causality backwards: those who can't write tend
to use a keyboard almost exclusively....
I have always had terrible handwriting (to this day I STILL cannot write
anything in cursive except my name). If I have to sign anything (since for
legal reasons it can't be printed) I have to practice two or three times:
Capital G's and L's give me fits :-) is it any wonder I hate mice too and
prefer a good keyboard? ;-)
-ed cetronmlandau@Diamond.BBN.COM (Matt Landau) (01/21/87)
In comp.misc (article <1145@rti-sel.UUCP>), rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random) writes: >Some of the discussions here lately made me think of an interesting question. > > Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers > who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget > who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it? I don't know about forgetting how to write longhand (I presume you didn't mean that using a keyboard causes you to forget who [sic] to write to!), but I find that using a keyboard certainly does have an effect on my handwriting. Mostly this is because I can type much faster than I can write, especially given the liberty of backspacing to correct mistakes. I find that when I write longhand, I tend to make more spelling mistakes, and that the mistakes generally involve leaving out letters or parts of letters (you know, the wrong number of humps on a longhand 'm', for instance). I suspect that the speed at which I compose text -- i.e., think about what to say -- is attuned to the speed at which I can type it on a Sun3 keyboard, and that writing longhand I literally think about what I'm saying faster than my hands can get it down on paper. I've noticed the same effect, although to a lesser degree, when typing on an unfamiliar keyboard. The differences in layout, key pressure, etc. slow me down just enough that I can't type as fast as I'm thinking anymore. -- Matt Landau mlandau@diamond.bbn.com BBN Laboratories, Inc. ...seismo!diamond.bbn.com!mlandau "Yow! Maybe we could paint GOLDIE HAWN a RICH PRUSSIAN BLUE..."
zben@umd5 (Ben Cranston) (01/21/87)
In article <4188@utah-cs.UUCP> cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) writes: > In article <1145@rti-sel.UUCP> rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random) writes: >> Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers >> who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget >> who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it? >> Before any of you might laugh, the other day, I was taking some notes and >> I had to stop and think how to make a capital cursive "G". And of course >> my handwriting has always been awful even before computers. Has anyone >> else noticed this problem? > I think you have the causality backwards: those who can't write tend > to use a keyboard almost exclusively.... > I have always had terrible handwriting (to this day I STILL cannot write > anything in cursive except my name). If I have to sign anything (since for > legal reasons it can't be printed) I have to practice two or three times: > Capital G's and L's give me fits :-) is it any wonder I hate mice too and > prefer a good keyboard? ;-) (Hiya Ed!) Dunno if the chicken or the egg came first, but I could NEVER write decently (they experimented on us kids - really! - but that's another story...) It drives me batty when I have to write a check and cannot remember how to do the cursive version of some seldom used letter like Y or Z! I always print when making notes for myself but got in the bad habit of doing all upper-case when gridding for keypunch and now the lower-case sensitivity of Unix is killing me... -- umd5.UUCP <= {seismo!mimsy,ihnp4!rlgvax}!cvl!umd5!zben Ben Cranston zben @ umd2.UMD.EDU Kingdom of Merryland UniSys 1100/92 umd2.BITNET "via HASP with RSCS"
allanon@hope.UUCP (Kenneth Leung) (01/21/87)
> > In article <1145@rti-sel.UUCP> rcb@rti-sel.UUCP (Random) writes: > > -> Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers > -> who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget > -> who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it? > -> [......stuff deleted.....] Very true, I use a keyboard extensively for all my writing, and to revert back to pens and pencils can be difficult (at tests esp.). All my data is stored on a PC left on 24hrs a day, and I type everything from memos to homework. Another topic, notice how most people(programmers excluded) still thinks that typing is a special EFFORT? I handed in some homework the other day and the grader THANKED me for typing the answers out (it was <1page) For me it is easier to read printed info and easier to edit and change stuff. The print was obvious computer printed (dot matrix) but people still feel it is an effort...... Anybody know what the % of people in this country knows how to type or use a word-processor? -ken "Stand by, sir. Miracle worker at work." STIV UUCP: {ucbvax!ucdavis,sdcsvax,ucivax}!ucrmath!hope!allanon ucrmath!hope!soft21!allanon ARPA: ucrmath!hope!allanon@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu UUPC: root@despair (User to Unix Personal computer) :-)
bobr@zeus.UUCP (Robert Reed) (01/21/87)
I don't have (any worse) trouble with handwriting or spelling or any of the other conditions previously described from long term text creation exclusively through a keyboard, but that is not to say that I had no problem. I found recently that when hand writing the inside of a single birthday card in my typically small cursive, by the end of the page my hand was cramping such that I could write no further! -- Robert Reed, Tektronix CAE Systems Division, bobr@zeus.TEK
sewilco@mecc.MECC.COM (Scot E. Wilcoxon) (01/23/87)
I don't care to use longhand instead of typing for computer input, but then
for this imaginary computer we don't need to use a normal pen.
Instead, use a stylus whose position and orientation the computer can detect.
You could write on the surface, or write on the air nearby. Put your hand
on the arm of your chair and use micromotions which have nothing to do with
normal longhand (the computer is trainable, of course). Point at the image
projected on the room's CRT (you already told computer 'screen here' and
pointed at opposite corners of the screen).
You have a lot to say? Slip on these gloves and type on air.
Several technologies capable of this are in use, and experiments with
similar devices have been made (the results will be helpful to designers).
--
Scot E. Wilcoxon Minn Ed Comp Corp {quest,dayton,meccts}!mecc!sewilco
(612)481-3507 sewilco@MECC.COM ihnp4!meccts!mecc!sewilco
"Who's that lurking over there? Is that Merv Griffin?"woolstar@cit-750.caltech.edu.UUCP (01/25/87)
In article <1165@hope.UUCP> allanon@hope.UUCP (Kenneth Leung) writes: >Another topic, notice how most people(programmers excluded) still thinks >that typing is a special EFFORT? I handed in some homework the other day >and the grader THANKED me for typing the answers out (it was <1page) >For me it is easier to read printed info and easier to edit and change >stuff. The print was obvious computer printed (dot matrix) but people still >feel it is an effort...... >Anybody know what the % of people in this country knows how to type or >use a word-processor? I don't know what it is, but it should be higher. My highschool had the inteligent notion that if you were going to use a computer you had to know how to type. (Entering anything in without touch typing is a bear.) So a pre-requirement for any Computer class was one term of typing, for which I am eternally greatfull. What bugs me is that my present college is trying to teach computers to a campus that for the most part Doesn't know how to type and isn't offering typing. Anyone that uses my terminal gets a real treat. :-) Once I took all the keys off to clean them, and out of boredum put them all back in alphabetical order. [a][b][c][d]... [k][l][m][n]... Hunt and peck typers BEWARE :-) "Note: the above thoughs are not shared by any part of the adminstration." 'vis-a-vis' -Dave barry -------------- John D Woolverton "Yes it's true..." jdw@tybalt.caltech.edu woolstar@csvax.caltech.edu
broome@daffy.UUCP (01/26/87)
In article <1587@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> woolstar@cit-750.caltech.edu.UUCP (John D Woolverton) writes: > Anyone that uses my terminal gets a real treat. :-) Once I took all the keys > off to clean them, and out of boredum put them all back in alphabetical > order. [a][b][c][d]... > [k][l][m][n]... Hunt and peck typers BEWARE :-) One of the people here always uses a program to remap input from a normal qwerty keyboard to the dvorak layout. Of course, the keycaps are still marked for the qwerty layout ... Suffice it to say, he doesn't need to worry about people typing in malicious (or any other!) commands if he walks away without logging out ... --- Jonathan Broome
gregor@tikal.UUCP (01/26/87)
In article <1165@hope.UUCP> allanon@hope.UUCP (Kenneth Leung) writes: >Another topic, notice how most people(programmers excluded) still thinks >that typing is a special EFFORT? >-ken I typed everyting but math homework in school. Typing Formulas *is* an effort on the average pc and/or typewriter. Even the Macintosh leaves something to be desired. Anybody got a PD eqn? Gregor Harrison -- EMAIL: {uw-beaver, fluke}!tikal!gregor QUOTE: "This quote is false." DISCLAIMER: "All opinions found above are my personal property, and not that of Teltone, Inc."
lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (01/26/87)
In the first place, you shouldn't have to type what the teacher is saying--
the computer should take dictation for you. Also save a copy of the
blackboard every time the teacher reaches for the eraser. Then you can
sit and think about what she's saying.
Here's the computer terminal I want:
Text input by subvocalization. A few sensors on the appropriate nerves
should do.
Alternate text input by analysis of sound, when desired.
Pointing input by looking at what you want to point at.
Graphic input by scanning the image on your retina, subtracting out the image
of your retinal blood vessels and all. Alternately via a micro camera mounted
in your sclera next to your cornea. Fancy models also do UV, IR, gamma, etc.
Output is done directly onto your retina by an intra-ocular projector, located
off to one side of your iris so it doesn't obstruct incoming light. Usual
mode of operation is to display when your eyes are shut--if you want to
see both text and visual field, close one eye. (Text is held in one place
even when you move your eye so you can use eye motion as pointing device on
text too, even though the projector is moving with your eye.) Optional
HUD-style interface, so you don't have to shut your eyes if you don't mind
the computer scribbling on your view of the world. Great for nighttime vision
via IR camera. Also makes your eyes glow in the dark, even better than a cat's.
Your girlfriend will love it.
I/O to camera and projector is probably via a small infra-red laser on your
eyelid. Turn off your laser, get close enough to your girlfriend's laser and
you can see what she's looking at. Of course, you're probably already running
uucp between her computer and yours so who needs to get close. :-)
Okay, that's the spec. Who wants to implement it?
I'd suggest biocircuits so you can power it via ATP.
Larry Wall
{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwallwerme@alliant.UUCP (01/27/87)
In article <1145@rti-sel.UUCP> Random (Randy Buckland) writes: > Do people who use a keyboard almost exclusively (like programmers > who don't work with paper if they can avoid it) begin to forget > who to write with a pencil/pen, or get worse at it? Well, my handwriting has always been atrocious, either becuse I should be left handed but ws taught to be righthanded (a longish story) or because I was a gifted child (turns out poor penmanship is a "symptom" of giftedness). I'm 36 and my handwriting has gotten much worse over the last few months and I'm not real sure why. The problem is clear - when I write, my thumb begins to bend and puts way too much pressure on my pencil and the fingers supporting that. So much pressure in fact that my thumb joints can ache afterwards. My suspicion is either a nerve problem (if I had time, I'd see my doctor...) or simply that I need some retraining. Oddly enough, nothing else seems to be affected. Typing is no problem, writing on white boards is no worse than usual, and I haven't noticed any difficulty while using chopsticks. I can use chopsticks lefthanded, maybe I should try writing that way. -- The Art of Programming Ric Werme needs to be tempered with uucp: decvax!linus!alliant the Structure of Engineering Phone: 603-673-3993
nelsons@psu-cs.UUCP (01/28/87)
In article <3949@sdcrdcf.UUCP> lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall) writes: >Here's the computer terminal I want: > >Text input by subvocalization. A few sensors on the appropriate nerves >should do. >Alternate text input by analysis of sound, when desired. >Pointing input by looking at what you want to point at. >Graphic input by scanning the image on your retina, [...] >Okay, that's the spec. Who wants to implement it? >I'd suggest biocircuits so you can power it via ATP. > >Larry Wall >{allegra,burdvax,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!lwall While we're at it, let's attach this computer to the top of the medula oblongata. It can then take care of all of the bodily functions, and we can hide it inside the huge cavity behind the eyes, right between the ears... :-) -- /======\ Shannon Nelson // \\ \\ ...tektronix!psu-cs!nelsons (( go\\to )) \\ \\ // "Keyboard. How quaint." \======/
carl@harlie.UUCP (01/29/87)
lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Larry Wall): ...all things not possible by today's technology as far as I know deleted... > Alternate text input by analysis of sound, when desired. Could this be done, just pointing a mike at your instructor and everything coming down on your screen? Never mind the fact that they speak with a lisp and a thick German accent and are saying "Time flies like an arrow". > Pointing input by looking at what you want to point at. Can digitisers work that well, assuming you have a small camera? Feed what the camera sees to the screen, then capture it once you have it focused right. Anyone think a computer could make sense out of handwriting in chalk on a dusty board? > I/O to camera and projector is probably via a small infra-red laser on your > eyelid. Could you transmit data via an IR laser over to other students' computers? Say you beam Joe's computer with a question across the room... or would it be better just to have the things all hooked into a small VAX and allow them to communicate via Ethernet? > Okay, that's the spec. Who wants to implement it? I don't know but I think William Gibson will want one. Carl -- /--------------------------------v-------------------------------------------\ | Carl Greenberg | "I have a very firm grasp on reality! I | | Lunatic Laboratories Unlimited | can reach out and strangle it any time!" | | "I always have fun because I'm | UUCP: -- Me | | out of my mind." -- Zippy | {qantel,ihnp4,lll-crg}!ptsfa!harlie!carl | \--------------------------------^-------------------------------------------/
wrs@pupthy.UUCP (01/29/87)
Larry Wall <lwall@sdcrdcf.UUCP> writes: >> Here's the computer terminal I want: >> >> Text input by subvocalization. A few sensors on the appropriate nerves >> should do. >> Alternate text input by analysis of sound, when desired. >> Pointing input by looking at what you want to point at. >> Graphic input by scanning the image on your retina, > [...] >> Okay, that's the spec. Who wants to implement it? >> I'd suggest biocircuits so you can power it via ATP. Shannon Nelson <nelsons@psu-cs.UUCP> writes: > While we're at it, let's attach this computer to the top of the > medula oblongata. It can then take care of all of the bodily > functions, and we can hide it inside the huge cavity behind the > eyes, right between the ears... :-) I had thought about this at one time. (The beginnings of a sci-fi story that never went anywhere.) There isn't really that much extra room inside the skull. The scenario I envisioned went something like this: The computer, plus a fuel cell for power, is about the size of a fist. One kidney is surgically removed, and the computer/fuel-cell is placed in the vacated space. (You can get along quite well with one kidney, but keep the removed one in cryogenic storage, just in case the remaining one goes bad.) Now, the displaced kidney was connected to a major vein and artery, so those connections are tied into the fuel cell. The fuel cell then leaches oxygen and simple sugars out of the blood stream, oxidizes the sugars to generate electrical power for the computer, and deposits the waste products back in the blood stream to be removed by the remaining kidney. The computer is tied directly into the brain via optical fibers runing up the spinal column to diverse areas of the cerebral cortex. The computer-to-brain fibers terminate in modified retinal neurons to couple the optical signals into the neural pathways of the brain. The brain-to-computer fibers originate in special bioluminescent neurons to feed the neural signals of the brain back to the computer. (These special neurons are something for the genetic engineering boys/girls to work out.) Now THAT would be computer interfacing! :-) Quote: "Sorry, CapCom, but I've got a failure with my on-board computer!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R. Somsky Physics Dept ; Princeton Univ wrs@pupthy.PRINCETON.EDU PO Box 708 ; Princeton NJ 08544
forys@boulder.UUCP (01/30/87)
In article <205@pupthy.UUCP> wrs@pupthy.UUCP (William R. Somsky) writes: > The fuel cell then leaches oxygen and simple sugars out of the blood > stream, oxidizes the sugars to generate electrical power for the computer, > and deposits the waste products back in the blood stream to be removed by > the remaining kidney. But why tie up the blood stream? Instead, just DMA the waste from the fuel cell past the kidney... :-)
robertd@ncoast.UUCP (01/31/87)
I don't even want to think about my
handwriting. Although its goten *MUCH*
better over the past few months. I dont
understand why, I use a key-board alot
these days....Hmmmm.....
Mabie its all though english-
writing assignments...
----------------------------
Rob Demarco:
UUCP:ncoast!robertd
----------------------------
jc@cdx39.UUCP (02/02/87)
In article <335@boulder.UUCP>, forys@boulder.UUCP (Jeff Forys) writes: > In article <205@pupthy.UUCP> wrs@pupthy.UUCP (William R. Somsky) writes: > > The fuel cell then leaches oxygen and simple sugars out of the blood > > stream, oxidizes the sugars to generate electrical power for the computer, > > and deposits the waste products back in the blood stream to be removed by > > the remaining kidney. > > But why tie up the blood stream? Instead, just DMA the waste from the > fuel cell past the kidney... > > :-) First, you obviously meant DBA (Direct Bladder Access). Second, it isn't necessary. If the fuel cell is anywhere near efficient, the result of combining O2 with sugars, i.e., (HCOH)n will be CO2 and H2O; the appropriate way of handling this would be to dump it back to the blood, letting the lungs separate out the CO2. A direct connection is undesirable, because the fuel cell would have to separate the two end products, giving a rather pointless duplication of the lungs' function. -- John M Chambers Phone: 617/364-2000x7304 Email: ...{adelie,bu-cs,harvax,inmet,mcsbos,mit-eddie,mot[bos]}!cdx39!{jc,news,root,usenet,uucp} Smail: Codex Corporation; Mailstop C1-30; 20 Cabot Blvd; Mansfield MA 02048-1193 Clever-Saying: Uucp me out of here, Scotty; there's no AI on this node!