roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (03/10/87)
The latest issue of Hardcopy showed up today (along with the June
1986 Computing Surveys :-)) on my desk. There was a press release from DEC
about their "new" VAX-9878 (I hope I got that number right) which delivers
50 MIPS for just under $5 million, and is supposed to compete against the
big IBM machines in commercial data processing applications.
I gather the new machine is really "just" a VaxCluster of 8 8700's,
2 HSC-50's, 4 TA-78's, 16 RA-82's, and a uVax-II for a console. Does it
offend anyone else that DEC (just to name an example; they all do it) takes
a collection of off-the-shelf parts, sticks a model number on it and touts
it as some new push-back-the-edges-of-technology machine? Granted this is
a pretty hefty amount of computing power, but it's nothing more than
plugging some standard parts together. Actually, the only interesting part
of the ad was the bit about how the system includes a resident engineer.
Does he come in the box marked "open me first"?
I find myself reading with semi-horrid fascination about how the
Wall Street types go ga-ga over every new DEC announcement. I made up my
mind long ago that DEC hasn't really announced anything exciting in years.
I think the last interesting product DEC had was the J-11 chip, yet every
new machine they announce, no matter how boring from a technical point of
view, gets gobbled up by the business types.
Am I jaded? Am I being naive? Am I just turned off by big
companies and prefer to stick my neck out with relative startups like Sun?
I was having a conversation a few weeks ago with a man whose opinion I
respect greatly when he said something which really took me by surprise. I
was singing the praises of sexy things like Suns, Sequents, Iris's, Lisp
Machines, etc, and making disparaging remarks about Vaxen, when he said
that the next machine he buys will be another Vax because if you make the
wrong decision and buy something new, you'll get screwed but nobody will
ever get fired by making the wrong decision and buying a Vax. Comments?
--
Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy
System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"you can't spell deoxyribonucleic without unix!"marty1@houdi.UUCP (M.BRILLIANT) (03/10/87)
In article <2607@phri.UUCP>, roy@phri.UUCP writes: > .... Does it > offend anyone else that DEC (just to name an example; they all do it) takes > a collection of off-the-shelf parts, sticks a model number on it and touts > it as some new push-back-the-edges-of-technology machine?.... > ... Actually, the only interesting part > of the ad was the bit about how the system includes a resident engineer. > > I was having a conversation a few weeks ago ... I > was singing the praises of sexy things like Suns... when he said > that the next machine he buys will be another Vax because if you make the > wrong decision and buy something new, you'll get screwed but nobody will > ever get fired by making the wrong decision and buying a Vax. Comments? > -- > Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy > System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute > 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 Yeah, I have a comment. I thought a system administrator was somebody who could lash together a collection of equipment and spend an unlimited amount of time trying to make it work. DEC is selling a lashup with a guarantee of performance, and even includes a resident engineer to make it work. If that's not a technical breakthrough, it's still the functional equivalent of a bigger machine. As a user, I like the capabilities of sexy things like Suns, but I want them to work before the computer support budget runs out. M. B. Brilliant Marty AT&T-BL HO 3D-520 (201)-949-1858 Holmdel, NJ 07733 ihnp4!houdi!marty1
perkins@bnrmtv.UUCP (03/10/87)
> I gather the new machine is really "just" a VaxCluster of 8 8700's, > 2 HSC-50's, 4 TA-78's, 16 RA-82's, and a uVax-II for a console. Does it > offend anyone else that DEC (just to name an example; they all do it) takes > a collection of off-the-shelf parts, sticks a model number on it and touts > it as some new push-back-the-edges-of-technology machine? Granted this is > a pretty hefty amount of computing power, but it's nothing more than > plugging some standard parts together. > > Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy Actually, the amazing thing is that all this off-the-shelf hardware actually works together. DEC has managed to do this fairly well, whereas IBM is unable to make most of its machines talk to each other. Other vendors (example: Apollo) have done a good job of supplying a single source "solution" for whatever problem you want solved, but DEC has a much larger array of choices than anyone except IBM. Since DEC's multi-machine systems work and IBM's don't, DEC is making big bucks. -- {hplabs,amdahl,3comvax}!bnrmtv!perkins --Henry Perkins It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? One in a million, perhaps.
david@ukma.UUCP (03/12/87)
In article <2607@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes:
...
< Am I jaded? Am I being naive? Am I just turned off by big
<companies and prefer to stick my neck out with relative startups like Sun?
<I was having a conversation a few weeks ago with a man whose opinion I
<respect greatly when he said something which really took me by surprise. I
<was singing the praises of sexy things like Suns, Sequents, Iris's, Lisp
<Machines, etc, and making disparaging remarks about Vaxen, when he said
<that the next machine he buys will be another Vax because if you make the
<wrong decision and buy something new, you'll get screwed but nobody will
<ever get fired by making the wrong decision and buying a Vax. Comments?
I thought that was IBM that nobody ever got fired for ... :-)
--
----- David Herron, cbosgd!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET, david@ms.uky.csnet
----- (also "postmaster", "news", "netnews", "uucp", "mmdf", and ...)
----- (and the Usenet map maintainer for Kentucky.)
----- "A ... A carton of Camels by noon, or permanent penguin pate!"greg@utcsri.UUCP (Gregory Smith) (03/14/87)
In article <2607@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: > I find myself reading with semi-horrid fascination about how the >Wall Street types go ga-ga over every new DEC announcement. [....] >every new machine they announce, no matter how boring from a technical >point of view, gets gobbled up by the business types. [...] >he said >that the next machine he buys will be another Vax because if you make the >wrong decision and buy something new, you'll get screwed but nobody will >ever get fired by making the wrong decision and buying a Vax. Comments? s/DEC/IBM/ s/vax/IBM PC/ s/1987/1981/ (or thereabouts) I remember it well... "Hey! IBM is making microcomputers! I guess they aren't just *toys* after all!..... [what's this ASCII stuff though?] " It's true though. If you are a business person who can't take the time to evaluate which of the companies are likely to be around for a while, and provide support, and who can't take a risk on the lack of such support, it's probably worth a hefty premium just for peace of mind. Even if you buy the wrong IBM, you can tell your boss "Well, if an *IBM* can't do it, boss, it couldn't be *my* fault!!" :-) :-( -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Smith University of Toronto UUCP: ..utzoo!utcsri!greg Have vAX, will hack...
lyang@jennifer.UUCP (03/17/87)
In article <2607@phri.UUCP> roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) writes: > I find myself reading with semi-horrid fascination about how the >Wall Street types go ga-ga over every new DEC announcement. I made up my >mind long ago that DEC hasn't really announced anything exciting in years. >I think the last interesting product DEC had was the J-11 chip, yet every >new machine they announce, no matter how boring from a technical point of >view, gets gobbled up by the business types. Remember, Wall Street analysts aren't computer engineers. It's a well known fact that if you pay attention to something more, you'll notice it more. DEC has had solid earnings reports during a period of decline for the computer industry in general, and since analysts understand $$$, they started noticing DEC. Now DEC is announcing all these nifty products, and the response on Wall Street is 'ooh! aah! DEC is really making big gains in the computer industry. Wow!! I'll have to invest more of the mutual fund in DEC stock....' Thus, the price goes up. A couple of days ago Sun's stock went up over 2 points. I was mystified, til I looked at IBM. Sure enough, IBM went up 4 points. Rule of thumb: if IBM's stock goes up, everyone's goes up. If IBM goes down, everyone's goes down. In other words: #define computer-industry IBM Of course, things are changing a bit now. IBM isn't quite the magic word it used to be. But analysts haven't changed; they're still as naive about computer technology as planaria are of space flight. One final note: At Stanford a bunch of investment banking firms are recruiting electrical engineers. So, if any of you computer jocks want to make a ton of money contributing little to the maufacturing base of this country, then be an investment banker. I hear Kidder Peabody has a few openings... ================================================================================ --Larry Yang [lyang@sun.com,{backbone}!sun!lyang]| A REAL _|> /\ | Sun Microsystems, Inc., Mountain View, CA | signature | | | /-\ |-\ /-\ "Build a system that even a fool can use and | <|_/ \_| \_/\| |_\_| only a fool will want to use it." | _/ _/
skip@ubvax.UUCP (Stayton D Addison Jr) (03/18/87)
In article <15129@sun.uucp> lyang@sun.UUCP (Larry Yang) writes: > ... >A couple of days ago Sun's stock went up over 2 points. I was mystified, >til I looked at IBM. Sure enough, IBM went up 4 points. Rule of thumb: >if IBM's stock goes up, everyone's goes up. If IBM goes down, everyone's >goes down. In other words: > >#define computer-industry IBM > ... I think you've got cause and effect mixed up here. IBM is a large part of the computer industry, but it doesn't define it. -- Skip Addison {lll-crg, decwrl, ihnp4}!amdcad!cae780!ubvax!skip or sun!amdI am I am I